Capitol security woefully unprepared...

[Aqua Letifer]

@mik said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

To my thinking there is no real comparison between the two situations.

So which do you think is worse then?

I keep hearing people saying in earnest that BLM protestors were somehow more "illegal" in their actions than the people yesterday who tried to thwart the counting of electoral college votes.

If you think the BLM protestors are worse, how is that so?

If you think the people yesterday were worse, why then did BLM protestors receive far harsher treatment?

[kluurs]

The Capitol police who were there, for the most part, did their job though it appears that a few encouraged and aided the "revolution." if you listen to the interview I mentioned in the first post, he outlines some of the degree of forces available to the 2,200 Captial police in additoin to the Metropolitan police. Much, much larger forces have been deployed in the past to control crowds that had not intention of assulting the Capitol. This time, there was advance warning that there would be more than peaceful protest - and it is safe to say almost nothing was done to prepare the Capitol from assault. This is incredible, especially in light of the experience in Michigan. For the BLM protests last summer, they had streets blocked off humvees, copters, hundreds of police in riot gear and the National Guard standing by.

What happened yesterday should never happen again.

[Mik]

@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

@mik said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

To my thinking there is no real comparison between the two situations.

So which do you think is worse then?

I keep hearing people saying in earnest that BLM protestors were somehow more "illegal" in their actions than the people yesterday who tried to thwart the counting of electoral college votes.

If you think the BLM protestors are worse, how is that so?

If you think the people yesterday were worse, why then did BLM protestors receive far harsher treatment?

How did Ax get your password?

I would say they got similar treatment. In Portland, your example, they rioted every fucking night for months. They are still protesting according to a friend who lives there. He lives just couple blocks from the stupid red house thing. CHAZ stood for weeks with forbearance. There was very little force used here in Cincinnati against protestors.

As far as which is worse? That's really not a useful determination. Both got out of hand. But to their credit, officials nationwide avoided a Tianenmen Square event.

[Doctor Phibes]

@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

I'm having a hard time squaring this and honest to God it'd be good to hear some speculations:

Both groups disobeyed police orders. Why were the people on the left not shot, tear-gassed, detained, or immediately arrested?
Why are the people on the right somehow worse when none of them intended to stop Congress from fulfilling a presidential election? By our own laws, yesterday's actions were more serious by leagues.

You want an answer other than the one that's screaming out?

[Horace]

@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

@mik said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

To my thinking there is no real comparison between the two situations.

So which do you think is worse then?

Definitely the CHAZ overtake of an upper middle class neighborhood. Portland too, but I'm not sure of the rhetorical value of that travesty when I can just talk about CHAZ.

I keep hearing people saying in earnest that BLM protestors were somehow more "illegal" in their actions than the people yesterday who tried to thwart the counting of electoral college votes.

If you think the BLM protestors are worse, how is that so?

That our society is filled with those who support that initiative more so than it's filled with imbeciles who want to get shot in the head in the process of overtaking the capitol.

[Aqua Letifer]

@doctor-phibes said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

I'm having a hard time squaring this and honest to God it'd be good to hear some speculations:

Both groups disobeyed police orders. Why were the people on the left not shot, tear-gassed, detained, or immediately arrested?
Why are the people on the right somehow worse when none of them intended to stop Congress from fulfilling a presidential election? By our own laws, yesterday's actions were more serious by leagues.

You want an answer other than the one that's screaming out?

Well, I guess you could say that I question the wisdom of someone who's screaming at me. And I'm honestly interested in trying to be right about my opinions on this, so I want to compare the obvious to things I haven't thought about.

[Aqua Letifer]

@horace said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

Definitely the CHAZ overtake of an upper middle class neighborhood.

Yeah, that's a good point. They didn't just burn crap down as a one-off, they permanently destroyed a neighborhood.

I also think that what happened yesterday was a goofy, extremely half-assed insurrection that was nonetheless taken seriously by the participants. If they could have gotten away with destroying the electoral college votes they absolutely would have. That's several orders of magnitude worse than trying to overtake barriers at random city X.

[jon-nyc]

[Horace]

[Loki]

@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

@horace said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

Definitely the CHAZ overtake of an upper middle class neighborhood.

Yeah, that's a good point. They didn't just burn crap down as a one-off, they permanently destroyed a neighborhood.

I also think that what happened yesterday was a goofy, extremely half-assed insurrection that was nonetheless taken seriously by the participants. If they could have gotten away with destroying the electoral college votes they absolutely would have. That's several orders of magnitude worse than trying to overtake barriers at random city X.

You have a massive non plausible “if” built into your equation.

If the anarchists could achieve their aims it wouldn’t be so minimal.

[Aqua Letifer]

[Horace]

@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

@horace said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

Definitely the CHAZ overtake of an upper middle class neighborhood.

Yeah, that's a good point. They didn't just burn crap down as a one-off, they permanently destroyed a neighborhood.

I also think that what happened yesterday was a goofy, extremely half-assed insurrection that was nonetheless taken seriously by the participants. If they could have gotten away with destroying the electoral college votes they absolutely would have. That's several orders of magnitude worse than trying to overtake barriers at random city X.

Lots of righteous fury to go around. The thing about righteousness is that if there's sufficient amount in any given head, it allows for anything. Such as stealing electoral votes. I totally get why people were scared of Trump "stealing" this election. They were scared that people who shared their hatred would do what hating people do, and they were scared our systems would not hold up. But, I think our systems held up.

[Aqua Letifer]

@loki said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

@horace said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

Definitely the CHAZ overtake of an upper middle class neighborhood.

Yeah, that's a good point. They didn't just burn crap down as a one-off, they permanently destroyed a neighborhood.

I also think that what happened yesterday was a goofy, extremely half-assed insurrection that was nonetheless taken seriously by the participants. If they could have gotten away with destroying the electoral college votes they absolutely would have. That's several orders of magnitude worse than trying to overtake barriers at random city X.

You have a massive non plausible “if” built into your equation.

If the anarchists could achieve their aims it wouldn’t be so minimal.

No, no I don't. It might be how you gauge the importance of a situation, but that's not how our laws are written. You try to prevent the federal government from conducting the electoral process, that's an attempt to overthrow, period. You don't get a pass because you were unsuccessful and you didn't look scary in the eyes of the audience watching at home.

As for non-plausible, they literally tried to do that. They went after the records, and were prevented from stealing them by the Senate floor staff.

[Loki]

@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

@loki said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

@horace said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

Definitely the CHAZ overtake of an upper middle class neighborhood.

Yeah, that's a good point. They didn't just burn crap down as a one-off, they permanently destroyed a neighborhood.

I also think that what happened yesterday was a goofy, extremely half-assed insurrection that was nonetheless taken seriously by the participants. If they could have gotten away with destroying the electoral college votes they absolutely would have. That's several orders of magnitude worse than trying to overtake barriers at random city X.

You have a massive non plausible “if” built into your equation.

If the anarchists could achieve their aims it wouldn’t be so minimal.

No, no I don't. It might be how you gauge the importance of a situation, but that's not how our laws are written. You try to prevent the federal government from conducting the electoral process, that's an attempt to overthrow, period. You don't get a pass because you were unsuccessful and you didn't look scary in the eyes of the audience watching at home.

As for non-plausible, they literally tried to do that. They went after the records, and were prevented from stealing them by the Senate floor staff.

We must be talking past each other. Today was as normal as any other day in most people’s lives. I’ve studied much history and can’t think of any other example where this would qualify as a failed coup or a failed revolution. That said I do get your point on the “attempt” even if it was hapless in every manner.

[Horace]

Its greatest effect is that it was a joke. I guess some white woman died. Let's see how much social machinery we have that cares about that.

[Jolly]

[Aqua Letifer]

@mik said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

Capitol police were battling the crowd throughout the day, not just sitting on their hands.

About that...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJwxYf1Jcj1/

[jon-nyc]

Some excerpts from an AP piece.

U.S. Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund, under pressure from Schumer, Pelosi and other congressional leaders, was forced to resign. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell asked for and received the resignation of the Sergeant at Arms of the Senate, Michael Stenger, effective immediately. Paul Irving, the longtime Sergeant at Arms of the House, also resigned.

It is not clear how many officers were on-duty Wednesday, but the complex is policed by a total of 2,300 officers for 16 acres of ground who protect the 435 House representatives, 100 U.S. senators and their staff. By comparison, the city of Minneapolis has about 840 uniformed officers policing a population of 425,000 in a 6,000-acre area.

The acting U.S. attorney in the District of Columbia, Michael Sherwin, said the failure to arrest more people is making their jobs harder.

“Look, we have to now go through cell site orders, collect video footage to try to identify people and then charge them, and then try to execute their arrest. So that has made things challenging, but I can’t answer why those people weren’t zip-tied as they were leaving the building by the Capitol Police.”

https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-riots-police-coronavirus-pandemic-9c39a4ddef0ab60a48828a07e4d03380

[Jolly]

I wouldn't be a cop nowadays for love nor money.

[xenon]

@aqua-letifer said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

@mik said in Capitol security woefully unprepared...:

Capitol police were battling the crowd throughout the day, not just sitting on their hands.

About that...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJwxYf1Jcj1/

That’s fucked up.