What's Joe's Plan?
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@taiwan_girl said in What's Joe's Plan?:
@Copper said in What's Joe's Plan?:
Saying the current administration didn't lead in this cause is nonsense.
It is not nonsense. It was a very mixed message coming from Washington DC.
Masks/no masks - don’t know. good people on each side
Lockdown/don’t lockdown - don’t know. Good people on each side.
Etc.He should have said:
Masks - 100% of the time. No exceptions. You won’t see me without a mask. You come to a rally of mine without a mask, no entry. You take off your mask while at a rally of mine, you are escorted out. No exceptions.
Entering country - 14 day quarantine. No exception.Break it, you start over. Here is what you will put on your phone so we can check.
Good hygiene - do it
Social distance - no exceptions. I will practice what I say
Detailed Contact tracing - we will do it. I am doing it with people I contact with. Here is an app you need to download.As I have say before, in the US, there is not the cultural, political, or probably legal will or ability to do the above. I am convinced that if, for example, president elect Biden were president when this started, we would be in the same situation.
But, looking back, Copper, would it have been better to completely lock down for a couple of months and keep the bubble in place, and then return to some sort of “relatively “ normal or to do what has been done over the last 9 months? Shutdown for two weeks, open at 25%, close for a week, open for a week, close for 3 weeks, etc etc. Which is better?
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"He should have said masks 100% of the time". That needs to be mentioned at the same time as another famous smear: "he doesn't follow science". Now for the facts: it was exactly because he WAS listening to the scientists that he was inconsistent about masks. The scientists - Fauci for example, initially said masks were useless. Then he said they weren't. Then he said they weren't necessary outdoors. Then he said they were. Then, using the "genius" of hindsight, those who default to blaming Trump for everything starts bitching about his use of masks.
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Entering the country. We do a 14 day quarantine. As for putting something on our phones so the government can check... this is not Taiwan. You are accustomed to having limited rights and freedoms. This is the US. We are (for now) a free people.
Social distancing. We have been doing that from day one. The only ones who seem to think they don't need to are the democrat politicians who want to be dictators.
Good hygiene. We've done that from day one.
Detailed contact tracing. We do contact tracing here too. We just do it after someone is diagnosed with the China virus instead of requiring everyone to give up their freedom and rights whether they're sick or not.
We do not want to be Taiwan. I'm glad you like it, and feel comfortable with the constraints placed on you. But keep it in Taiwan.
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@Larry Appreciate your response. I just think this was one of those cases, when the good of society, is more important than the good of the individual.
People give up freedoms every day, in the US, and in other countries.
I do believe, that the US is the most powerful, most developed, and probably the best country in the world.
That does not mean it is correct in everything it does 100% of the time. Not a good idea to say that, just because the US did it this way, it is the right way.
Did Taiwan or Thailand handle the situation to date better than the US? In some areas, I do believe that is the case.
Can the US learn from countries such as these going forward? I believe they can
Can other countries learn from the US? The answer to that is yes also.
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@taiwan_girl said in What's Joe's Plan?:
@Copper said in What's Joe's Plan?:
Saying the current administration didn't lead in this cause is nonsense.
It is not nonsense. It was a very mixed message coming from Washington DC.
Masks/no masks - don’t know. good people on each side
Lockdown/don’t lockdown - don’t know. Good people on each side.Lack of leadership is one thing
"Mixed message" is something completely different.
The message changed, every day, every minute in the beginning
Masks 100% of the time is ridiculous. It's a good thing he didn't say anything so ridiculous, trust was already hard to find.
Saying anything that obviously wrong would guarantee even fewer masks would be worn.
100%
That includes while I'm sleeping or when I'm all alone in my house in the shower. Is that it?
Suicides are at an all time high, millions are out of work, many small business owners are starving and will never recover.
And you want to make that even worse with a complete lockdown for months? That is evil, just plain evil.
How many suicides do you want to see before it is enough?
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@taiwan_girl said in What's Joe's Plan?:
@Larry Appreciate your response. I just think this was one of those cases, when the good of society, is more important than the good of the individual.
People give up freedoms every day, in the US, and in other countries.
I do believe, that the US is the most powerful, most developed, and probably the best country in the world.
That does not mean it is correct in everything it does 100% of the time. Not a good idea to say that, just because the US did it this way, it is the right way.
Did Taiwan or Thailand handle the situation to date better than the US? In some areas, I do believe that is the case.
Can the US learn from countries such as these going forward? I believe they can
Can other countries learn from the US? The answer to that is yes also.
You didn't grasp a single thing I said.
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@Larry said in What's Joe's Plan?:
@taiwan_girl said in What's Joe's Plan?:
@Larry Appreciate your response. I just think this was one of those cases, when the good of society, is more important than the good of the individual.
People give up freedoms every day, in the US, and in other countries.
I do believe, that the US is the most powerful, most developed, and probably the best country in the world.
That does not mean it is correct in everything it does 100% of the time. Not a good idea to say that, just because the US did it this way, it is the right way.
Did Taiwan or Thailand handle the situation to date better than the US? In some areas, I do believe that is the case.
Can the US learn from countries such as these going forward? I believe they can
Can other countries learn from the US? The answer to that is yes also.
You didn't grasp a single thing I said.
My goodness Larry you're a bit of a knob
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@Copper said in What's Joe's Plan?:
Suicides are at an all time high, millions are out of work, many small business owners are starving and will never recover.
That is my point.
Internally, Thailand, Taiwan is back close to normal. Very strict measures taken early. Instead of “death by a thousand cuts”, those countries took a deep wound early that can be recovered.
Could the US have done this? Probably not. But to my eye, the US response has not been the most effective.
US choose the middle ground. Halfway way of doing things which makes everyone mad and really does not help the problem.
(I KNOW I KNOW, looking at the past is very easy. The decisions made in the moment are very difficult)
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Different societies. There are some things that can be doe in SE Asia, that will not, cannot be done in the U.S.
OTOH, that's where a lot of societal innovation comes from. Or, at least used to...
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
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