The Covid antivaxxers
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FFS: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/06/us/politics/anti-vax-scientist-senate-hearing.html
A doctor who is skeptical of coronavirus vaccines and promotes the anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine as a Covid-19 treatment will be the lead witness at a Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee hearing on Tuesday, prompting criticism from Democrats who say Republicans should not give a platform to someone who spreads conspiracy theories.
Dr. Jane M. Orient is the executive director of the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, a group that opposes government involvement in medicine and views federal vaccine mandates as a violation of human rights.
“A public health threat is the rationale for the policy on mandatory vaccines. But how much of a threat is required to justify forcing people to accept government-imposed risks?” Dr. Orient wrote in a statement to the Senate last year, calling vaccine mandates “a serious intrusion into individual liberty, autonomy and parental decisions.”
In a phone interview on Sunday, Dr. Orient, an internist who received her medical degree from Columbia University in New York, resisted being cast as an “anti-vaxxer” and said she would not get a coronavirus vaccine because she had an autoimmune condition. She added that she opposed the government’s push for all Americans to be vaccinated against the coronavirus, noting that both vaccine candidates — one made by the Pfizer and the other by Moderna — use a new scientific method.
“It seems to me reckless to be pushing people to take risks when you don’t know what the risks are,” Dr. Orient said, adding: “People’s rights should be respected. Where is ‘my body, my choice’ when it comes to this?”
Your choice ends where my life and health start, you stupid twat.
@George-K said in The Covid antivaxxers:
FFS: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/06/us/politics/anti-vax-scientist-senate-hearing.html
She added that she opposed the government’s push for all Americans to be vaccinated against the coronavirus, noting that both vaccine candidates — one made by the Pfizer and the other by Moderna — use a new scientific method.What's the new scientific method?
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@George-K said in The Covid antivaxxers:
FFS: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/06/us/politics/anti-vax-scientist-senate-hearing.html
She added that she opposed the government’s push for all Americans to be vaccinated against the coronavirus, noting that both vaccine candidates — one made by the Pfizer and the other by Moderna — use a new scientific method.What's the new scientific method?
@LuFins-Dad said in The Covid antivaxxers:
What's the new scientific method?
Whatever the polls say it is.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@George-K said in The Covid antivaxxers:
said she would not get a coronavirus vaccine because she had an autoimmune condition.
I wonder what that means. I've been told I have an autoimmune condition, though I don't remember what it is or how it manifests itself, so to speak. My ophthalmologist mentioned it after looking into my eyes with his flashlight. Told me to go see my primary, he would send over what he found. Maybe I should wait for a while, before getting the vaccine.
@Rainman said in The Covid antivaxxers:
@George-K said in The Covid antivaxxers:
said she would not get a coronavirus vaccine because she had an autoimmune condition.
I wonder what that means. I've been told I have an autoimmune condition, though I don't remember what it is or how it manifests itself, so to speak. My ophthalmologist mentioned it after looking into my eyes with his flashlight. Told me to go see my primary, he would send over what he found. Maybe I should wait for a while, before getting the vaccine.
I'd investigate that, but there are a helluva lot of autoimmune diseases. I have mild Rheumatoid Arthritis, but I'm damn sure getting it. Most advice is that folks on immunosuppressant drugs should not get live virus vaccinations. I do not think the COVID vaccines are live, but I'm only on methotrexate anyway. .
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I read somewhere that Atul Gawande was focused on equity issues around who should get the vaccine first. He opined that someone may be willing to pay $2500 for ID to get the vaccine from someone much higher on th list.
Point is we are more likely to have shortages in the short run and also employers and businesses that will make it increasingly harder to function in society without a vaccine.
The anti-vaxxers will be locked out of life and people will be more interested in making sure that white privilege is not at the front of the line. That’s the juicy click bait stuff people crave.
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@LuFins-Dad said in The Covid antivaxxers:
What's the new scientific method?
Whatever the polls say it is.
@George-K said in The Covid antivaxxers:
@LuFins-Dad said in The Covid antivaxxers:
What's the new scientific method?
Whatever the polls say it is.
Presumably she's referring to the fact that these are mRNA vaccines, and saying 'new scientific method' is a lot scarier than 'a new type of vaccine'.
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Imagine that
https://khn.org/news/demand-for-covid-vaccines-expected-to-get-heated-and-fast/
But with two promising vaccines primed for release, likely within weeks, experts in ethics and immunization behavior say they expect attitudes to shift quickly from widespread hesitancy to urgent, even heated demand.
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I for one am very much in favor of vaccines that are known to work and have few harmful side effects.
What often gets overlooked in these heated COVID vaccine discussions is that there is a reasonable middle ground between the Anti-Vaxx idiots and the unconditional vaccine proponents, namely the realization that the vaccine testing process was obviously rushed quite significantly and hence the risks at this point are obviously higher than with other vaccines that follow the conventional multi-year testing and approval process.
I for one will be glad to be vaccinated, but only after a first batch of, say, 10 million people have been vaccinated for a few months and at least initial data on short-term side effects is available. I'd rather not be the guinea pig.
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I agree with your entire post. I’m happy that we’ll have likely have 6mo safety data before I get offered the vaccine.
Having said that, people who are worried about unknown long term effects of the vaccine often forget that we also don’t know the long term effects of a Covid infection.
Only non-witches get due process.
- Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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I agree with your entire post. I’m happy that we’ll have likely have 6mo safety data before I get offered the vaccine.
Having said that, people who are worried about unknown long term effects of the vaccine often forget that we also don’t know the long term effects of a Covid infection.
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Just for shits and grins, consider that VAERS now has over 400,000 adverse events from COVID vaccines.
And over 6000 deaths.
Now, VAERS is a self-reporting system, so take the data with a grain of salt. The problem is getting good, concrete data on adverse events.
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Just for shits and grins, consider that VAERS now has over 400,000 adverse events from COVID vaccines.
And over 6000 deaths.
Now, VAERS is a self-reporting system, so take the data with a grain of salt. The problem is getting good, concrete data on adverse events.
@jolly said in The Covid antivaxxers:
Just for shits and grins, consider that VAERS now has over 400,000 adverse events from COVID vaccines.
And over 6000 deaths.
Now, VAERS is a self-reporting system, so take the data with a grain of salt. The problem is getting good, concrete data on adverse events.
And 600,000 Americans who had a "Severe Adverse Event" from Covid could not be reached for comment....
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I dunno. The CDC still checks on my SIL. I think she's commented quite a bit. Or, my wife who went into A-Fib might have a comment or two. Of course, the CDC would actually have to get back in touch with her or her physician, which they haven't.
As I said, the system is self-reporting. I suspect that few reports are being followed up on, even the deaths. Therefore, my comment about good data.
