December 2020
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@Axtremus said in December 2020:
@Loki said in December 2020:
@jon-nyc said in December 2020:
More Americans will die of Covid in the month of December than were killed in the entire Vietnam war.
It’s very different to die at 18 than age 80. Life years lost is something people would never post when they post this stat because it removes the shock value and actual provides an opportunity for people to think for themselves.
So when it comes time to decide, after healthcare and frontline workers, who get the vaccine first, we should prioritize using (probability to die from COVID-19 if contracted) * (expected life-years lost if die due to COVID-19), is that right?
For the reduced and thus rationed capacity to perform surgeries due to COVID-19 patients taking up capacity, prioritization for who gets to have life-saving surgeries should also be made based on expected life-years lost if the patient dies due to surgery not being performed, is that right?
If you'd like, we could take a board vote to decide who gets it last around here...
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@Axtremus said in December 2020:
@Loki said in December 2020:
@jon-nyc said in December 2020:
More Americans will die of Covid in the month of December than were killed in the entire Vietnam war.
It’s very different to die at 18 than age 80. Life years lost is something people would never post when they post this stat because it removes the shock value and actual provides an opportunity for people to think for themselves.
So when it comes time to decide, after healthcare and frontline workers, who get the vaccine first, we should prioritize using (probability to die from COVID-19 if contracted) * (expected life-years lost if die due to COVID-19), is that right?
For the reduced and thus rationed capacity to perform surgeries due to COVID-19 patients taking up capacity, prioritization for who gets to have life-saving surgeries should also be made based on expected life-years lost if the patient dies due to surgery not being performed, is that right?
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I don’t know how the hell you got that from his post. That’s like me saying I would like soup for lunch and you infer that I believe penguins need to moved from the South Pole to the North...
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We already do prioritize some health services based on projected remaining life years... Ask anyone on a transplant list.
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@LuFins-Dad said in December 2020:
@Axtremus said in December 2020:
@Loki said in December 2020:
@jon-nyc said in December 2020:
More Americans will die of Covid in the month of December than were killed in the entire Vietnam war.
It’s very different to die at 18 than age 80. Life years lost is something people would never post when they post this stat because it removes the shock value and actual provides an opportunity for people to think for themselves.
So when it comes time to decide, after healthcare and frontline workers, who get the vaccine first, we should prioritize using (probability to die from COVID-19 if contracted) * (expected life-years lost if die due to COVID-19), is that right?
For the reduced and thus rationed capacity to perform surgeries due to COVID-19 patients taking up capacity, prioritization for who gets to have life-saving surgeries should also be made based on expected life-years lost if the patient dies due to surgery not being performed, is that right?
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I don’t know how the hell you got that from his post. That’s like me saying I would like soup for lunch and you infer that I believe penguins need to moved from the South Pole to the North...
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We already do prioritize some health services based on projected remaining life years... Ask anyone on a transplant list.
Thanks LD. I have always said that our approach should be to protect the most vulnerable and that should have been our emphasis from day 1. Ax must have missed it the 3-4 times I highlighted that point but it was a major theme of mine.
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@LuFins-Dad said in December 2020:
@Axtremus said in December 2020:
@Loki said in December 2020:
@jon-nyc said in December 2020:
More Americans will die of Covid in the month of December than were killed in the entire Vietnam war.
It’s very different to die at 18 than age 80. Life years lost is something people would never post when they post this stat because it removes the shock value and actual provides an opportunity for people to think for themselves.
So when it comes time to decide, after healthcare and frontline workers, who get the vaccine first, we should prioritize using (probability to die from COVID-19 if contracted) * (expected life-years lost if die due to COVID-19), is that right?
For the reduced and thus rationed capacity to perform surgeries due to COVID-19 patients taking up capacity, prioritization for who gets to have life-saving surgeries should also be made based on expected life-years lost if the patient dies due to surgery not being performed, is that right?
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I don’t know how the hell you got that from his post. That’s like me saying I would like soup for lunch and you infer that I believe penguins need to moved from the South Pole to the North...
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We already do prioritize some health services based on projected remaining life years... Ask anyone on a transplant list.
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is easy, he thinks remaining life year is important, translating it into practice results in the vaccination and rationed surgery prioritization I outlined.
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yes, the transplant prioritization scheme is consistent with taking the life year metric as important.
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@Loki said in December 2020:
@LuFins-Dad said in December 2020:
@Axtremus said in December 2020:
@Loki said in December 2020:
@jon-nyc said in December 2020:
More Americans will die of Covid in the month of December than were killed in the entire Vietnam war.
It’s very different to die at 18 than age 80. Life years lost is something people would never post when they post this stat because it removes the shock value and actual provides an opportunity for people to think for themselves.
So when it comes time to decide, after healthcare and frontline workers, who get the vaccine first, we should prioritize using (probability to die from COVID-19 if contracted) * (expected life-years lost if die due to COVID-19), is that right?
For the reduced and thus rationed capacity to perform surgeries due to COVID-19 patients taking up capacity, prioritization for who gets to have life-saving surgeries should also be made based on expected life-years lost if the patient dies due to surgery not being performed, is that right?
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I don’t know how the hell you got that from his post. That’s like me saying I would like soup for lunch and you infer that I believe penguins need to moved from the South Pole to the North...
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We already do prioritize some health services based on projected remaining life years... Ask anyone on a transplant list.
Thanks LD. I have always said that our approach should be to protect the most vulnerable and that should have been our emphasis from day 1. Ax must have missed it the 3-4 times I highlighted that point but it was a major theme of mine.
Oh you have, how does your "protect the most vulnerable" principle square with your "life-year is important" sentiment?
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@Loki said in December 2020:
@jon-nyc said in December 2020:
More Americans will die of Covid in the month of December than were killed in the entire Vietnam war.
It’s very different to die at 18 than age 80. Life years lost is something people would never post when they post this stat because it removes the shock value and actual provides an opportunity for people to think for themselves.
Then compare cumulative life-years if that's the metric you want to use.
After you do, you'll have two choices to make: somehow make a compelling argument that that number isn't shocking—good luck—or pivot to say life at 80 is less important than life at 20 because old people are doddering, can't do much, are a financial burden and basically inch closer to the line of "it doesn't matter when old people die alone of a terrible disease."
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Democrats should love Covid, since it kills off old people. And we all know that old people cost the most o provide medical care. It's easier to justify in their minds that grandpa dies from Covid then grandpa died because government provided health care deemed him too old to get treatment.
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@jon-nyc said in December 2020:
Or just assume that by now everyone knows about the age skew in Covid deaths and people can apply a discount factor if they feel that is appropriate.
Most years more people die of the flu than died in the entire Vietnam war yet we never dredged the Vietnam War comparison before and the comment today was the second squeezing of that rhetorical grape which was first floated months ago.
This comment is mostly about generating heat, I get it and I reject it.
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@jon-nyc said in December 2020:
I think you've made your own discount factors quite clear. I doubt anyone is unclear about how you feel.
It’s not a discount factor at all. We won’t even get into the fact that the 80 year often has self proclaimed a life worth living and many have spouses, kids, grandkids and a legacy to be proud of.
None of the 18 year olds got any of that.
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I'm not ready to go but I can understand being there. It is a perspective the young simply cannot have. There comes a point where you have accomplished pretty much all you are going to and life starts taking away more than it gives you. You have run your race and with any luck you're pretty happy with how you did it.
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@Horace said in December 2020:
My parents felt that way. My dad was ready to go, but not eager to. He knows he did a good job here. Thankfully, he's still around.
That’s right. That’s the goal to be ready to die and have gone through the important stages. Erik Erickson has a lot to say about where you should be at each decade of your life in terms of personal development. Piaget too.
Zeke Emmanuel thinks you should die at 75. He’s on Biden’s Covid advisory board. I would never ever vote for that philosophy.
Finally people in hospice hang on often and kids want their parents to hang on because there are life long unresolved issues. Best to not wait until the end for that stuff.
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My father and I had issues that had issues from way back. By the time I was 29 or so I realized I could hold on to these and let them sour the relationship forever or I could acknowledge he was a human being with flaws...just like me. It took some time, especially since he was that generation that was never, ever going to talk about how he felt about anything. We got through it and had a good relationship his last 15 or 20 years.
It's not worth it. I strongly urge folks to let these things go.
