Apple’s M1 chip fastest laptop CPU in the world
-
@Klaus said in Apple’s M1 chip fastest laptop CPU in the world:
@mark said in Apple’s M1 chip fastest laptop CPU in the world:
@Klaus The PC world is so much more interesting, and customizable.
My issue is not with the hardware.
I'd really really hate to move back to Windows. I need a Unix-style command line, and cygwin is too much of a hassle.
Linux would be the main alternative, but it comes with its own set of annoyances.
Hackintosh might be an alternative, but I think it doesn't work well with laptops.
Why not run Linux in a VM?
@mark said in Apple’s M1 chip fastest laptop CPU in the world:
@Klaus said in Apple’s M1 chip fastest laptop CPU in the world:
@mark said in Apple’s M1 chip fastest laptop CPU in the world:
@Klaus The PC world is so much more interesting, and customizable.
My issue is not with the hardware.
I'd really really hate to move back to Windows. I need a Unix-style command line, and cygwin is too much of a hassle.
Linux would be the main alternative, but it comes with its own set of annoyances.
Hackintosh might be an alternative, but I think it doesn't work well with laptops.
Why not run Linux in a VM?
Seriously: WSL (windows subsystem for Linux). Bash runs seamlessly. I compile client Linux stuff on my windows machine.
-
WSL does sound interesting. I wonder how well it is integrated into Windows (e.g., sharing clipboards). Maybe I should install Windows in a VM on a Mac, such that I can try WSL in it
-
So instead of adding much-needed ports to the Macbook Pro, they instead decided to drop two more ports, such that we now only have two ports left, one of which is used for charging.
What. The. Fuck.
@Klaus said in Apple’s M1 chip fastest laptop CPU in the world:
So instead of adding much-needed ports to the Macbook Pro, they instead decided to drop two more ports, such that we now only have two ports left, one of which is used for charging.
From a Mac blog:
“ The new Apple M1 chip is not without limitations, which is to be expected since this is the first-ever chip designed by Apple for the Mac.
The first Macs to be powered by the M1 chip are the MacBook Air, Mac mini, and 13-inch MacBook Pro. You’ll notice that all three of these machines feature two USB-C ports that support USB 4 and Thunderbolt. It is likely a limitation of the M1 controller that it only supports two ports.
Secondly, you’ll notice that the M1 Macs max out at 16GB of RAM, while Intel Macs can go significantly higher. The same also applies to SSD storage, where M1 Macs are limited to 2TB but Intel Macs can go to 4TB and even beyond. Again, these are likely limitations of the M1 chip. The new Apple M1 chip is not without limitations, which is to be expected since this is the first-ever chip designed by Apple for the Mac.
The first Macs to be powered by the M1 chip are the MacBook Air, Mac mini, and 13-inch MacBook Pro. You’ll notice that all three of these machines feature two USB-C ports that support USB 4 and Thunderbolt. It is likely a limitation of the M1 controller that it only supports two ports.
Secondly, you’ll notice that the M1 Macs max out at 16GB of RAM, while Intel Macs can go significantly higher. The same also applies to SSD storage, where M1 Macs are limited to 2TB but Intel Macs can go to 4TB and even beyond. Again, these are likely limitations of the M1 chip.”
-
Supposedly, you can run iOS apps on the Mac using the M1 chip.
I don't know if this requires some special developer software, or if it's native. If native, that's a big deal.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
-
I don't particularly buy into the speculation that the M1 chip limits the amount of RAM or the capacity of the SSD or the # of Thunderbolt/USB ports.
For a completely new chip, you're going to target "regular consumers" rather than power users, professional users, or enterprise users. The professional and enterprise users are more likely to use their computers to do "mission critical" stuff and expect higher reliability. And reliability is something harder to prove with a completely new chip.
So if I am Apple, I'm going to start that new chip with "consumer" systems. For the Mac, that's the MacBook Air, the Mac mini, and the lower-cost 2-port MacBook "Pro." These models had lower limitations to begin with (16GB RAM, 2TB SSD, 2 Thunderbolt/USB ports). Not saying that the M1 has these limitations, but if I decided ahead of time that the M1 will only go into cheaper systems with these limitations, I can turn around and cost-reduce and risk-reduce the M1 to these limitations.
Let the M1 run for a few months in large number of systems in the real customers' hands, see how the reliability numbers shake out, then see if I need to adjust plans to use some revisions of M1 in professional/enterprise systems.
It's a ballsy move to put the new chip in a "fan-less" system (MacBook Air), but that's also a way for them to see just how far they can push the M1's thermal limits in the real world.
I am actually quite tempted to get the MacBook Air.
The software will need more time to catchup, and I am not optimistic about how much performance "Rosetta 2" will suck out of the system emulating an Intel x86 atop the M1, but may be the iOS apps will run great on this (again, not sure how the "touch screen" interface is going to translate to the non-touch screen laptop).
-
I don't particularly buy into the speculation that the M1 chip limits the amount of RAM or the capacity of the SSD or the # of Thunderbolt/USB ports.
For a completely new chip, you're going to target "regular consumers" rather than power users, professional users, or enterprise users. The professional and enterprise users are more likely to use their computers to do "mission critical" stuff and expect higher reliability. And reliability is something harder to prove with a completely new chip.
So if I am Apple, I'm going to start that new chip with "consumer" systems. For the Mac, that's the MacBook Air, the Mac mini, and the lower-cost 2-port MacBook "Pro." These models had lower limitations to begin with (16GB RAM, 2TB SSD, 2 Thunderbolt/USB ports). Not saying that the M1 has these limitations, but if I decided ahead of time that the M1 will only go into cheaper systems with these limitations, I can turn around and cost-reduce and risk-reduce the M1 to these limitations.
Let the M1 run for a few months in large number of systems in the real customers' hands, see how the reliability numbers shake out, then see if I need to adjust plans to use some revisions of M1 in professional/enterprise systems.
It's a ballsy move to put the new chip in a "fan-less" system (MacBook Air), but that's also a way for them to see just how far they can push the M1's thermal limits in the real world.
I am actually quite tempted to get the MacBook Air.
The software will need more time to catchup, and I am not optimistic about how much performance "Rosetta 2" will suck out of the system emulating an Intel x86 atop the M1, but may be the iOS apps will run great on this (again, not sure how the "touch screen" interface is going to translate to the non-touch screen laptop).
@Axtremus said in Apple’s M1 chip fastest laptop CPU in the world:
I am not optimistic about how much performance "Rosetta 2"
I never noticed things being unacceptably slower in Rosetta 1, when the PowerPC - Intel transition occurred. It was totally seamless.
-
Read up some more on Rosetta 2: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/about_the_rosetta_translation_environment
Will have compatibility issues too, but should hopefully still be a good trade to be able to run iOS apps.
-
Supposedly, you can run iOS apps on the Mac using the M1 chip.
I don't know if this requires some special developer software, or if it's native. If native, that's a big deal.
@George-K said in Apple’s M1 chip fastest laptop CPU in the world:
I don't know if this requires some special developer software, or if it's native. If native, that's a big deal.
Why?
You can already execute iOS code on Intel chips. Just start an iOS virtual machine. Does it matter if it’s a Little faster on the M1?
-
@George-K said in Apple’s M1 chip fastest laptop CPU in the world:
I don't know if this requires some special developer software, or if it's native. If native, that's a big deal.
Why?
You can already execute iOS code on Intel chips. Just start an iOS virtual machine. Does it matter if it’s a Little faster on the M1?
@Klaus said in Apple’s M1 chip fastest laptop CPU in the world:
You can already execute iOS code on Intel chips. Just start an iOS virtual machine
I suppose one could jump through those hoops, but if I could just click on an app that's installed on my phone and run it on my Mac, that would be simple and a big selling points for those who don't know what a "virtual machine" is.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
-
I'm about 70% sure that Klaus is a virtual machine.
-
@Klaus said in Apple’s M1 chip fastest laptop CPU in the world:
You can already execute iOS code on Intel chips. Just start an iOS virtual machine
I suppose one could jump through those hoops, but if I could just click on an app that's installed on my phone and run it on my Mac, that would be simple and a big selling points for those who don't know what a "virtual machine" is.
@George-K said in Apple’s M1 chip fastest laptop CPU in the world:
@Klaus said in Apple’s M1 chip fastest laptop CPU in the world:
You can already execute iOS code on Intel chips. Just start an iOS virtual machine
I suppose one could jump through those hoops, but if I could just click on an app that's installed on my phone and run it on my Mac, that would be simple and a big selling points for those who don't know what a "virtual machine" is.
They could very easily make it such that it's just a click on the Mac now. In fact, there's loads of X86 code which those Macs need to execute and the way they execute it is also via some kind of virtualization/emulation/simulation. The main advantage of supporting it directly would be potentially higher speed, but iOS applications usually have fewer resources than what a laptop offers. Overall, I think the main business case for those processors is something else, such as maybe power savings or just good old politics.
-
Note the MacBook Air has only 8GB of RAM
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/4648107
Here's the 2020 16-inch MacBook Pro (i7)
https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/4665711
-
The 2020 Macbook pro uses the Intel Core i7-3720QM - isn't that a really old processor?
-
I don't quite understand why the single core score is so much higher.
The base frequency is a little higher, ok. The caches are significantly bigger, that might make a difference. But I find it hard to imagine that the new chip can do that much more per cycle.
-
-
Yeah, it is impressive. It's not so clear, though, how well that translates into real-world performance. These are all synthetic benchmarks.
One should also add that Intel/AMD desktop/server CPUs are still way faster. The fastest AMD CPUs have a multi-core score of around 60,000.
I personally have always "philosophically" preferred RISC over CISC CPUs. It's nice to see RISC so much on the rise.
-
Yeah, it is impressive. It's not so clear, though, how well that translates into real-world performance. These are all synthetic benchmarks.
One should also add that Intel/AMD desktop/server CPUs are still way faster. The fastest AMD CPUs have a multi-core score of around 60,000.
I personally have always "philosophically" preferred RISC over CISC CPUs. It's nice to see RISC so much on the rise.
@Klaus said in Apple’s M1 chip fastest laptop CPU in the world:
The fastest AMD CPUs have a multi-core score of around 60,000.
I have no doubt that there are many, many, "faster" chips.
The chip is just one part of the equation, see my "Big Sur" thread.
OTOH, that AMD CPU that scores 60K, is that available in a consumer machine for less than $2K?
