Can we at least end one narrative?
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Like anything, it works both ways. A friend in the US sent me a picture of a big sign posted near their town - a vote for a democrat is a vote for a communist.
People who support President Trump saying anybody who does not vote for him is brain dead, hates the US, Etc
There are extremes in both sides, but the middle 70% or so had very good reasons in voting for one candidate vs the other.
wrote on 9 Nov 2020, 16:11 last edited by Aqua Letifer 11 Sept 2020, 16:11@taiwan_girl said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
Like anything, it works both ways. A friend in the US sent me a picture of a big sign posted near their town - a vote for a democrat is a vote for a communist.
People who support President Trump saying anybody who does not vote for him is brain dead, hates the US, Etc
There are extremes in both sides, but the middle 70% or so had very good reasons in voting for one candidate vs the other.
It's not equivalent. No it doesn't work both ways. Of course there are conservatives on the extreme end. Of course that's bad and it contributes to be a problem.
But conservatives aren't toppling statues of liberals they hate. They're not cordoning off city blocks and preventing the police from entering because they're that mad at liberals. They're not responsible for doxxing. They're not responsible for cancel culture.
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@taiwan_girl said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
Like anything, it works both ways. A friend in the US sent me a picture of a big sign posted near their town - a vote for a democrat is a vote for a communist.
People who support President Trump saying anybody who does not vote for him is brain dead, hates the US, Etc
There are extremes in both sides, but the middle 70% or so had very good reasons in voting for one candidate vs the other.
It's not equivalent. No it doesn't work both ways. Of course there are conservatives on the extreme end. Of course that's bad and it contributes to be a problem.
But conservatives aren't toppling statues of liberals they hate. They're not cordoning off city blocks and preventing the police from entering because they're that mad at liberals. They're not responsible for doxxing. They're not responsible for cancel culture.
wrote on 9 Nov 2020, 16:28 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer again, you really think that is a large % of the people?
75,000,000 voted for VP Biden. How many actually are doing things like you said?
(I honestly don’t know , being somewhat removed from the situation).
Let’s say it is 150000 people doing what you are talking about. Seems like a big number but it is only 0.2% of the people who voted for VP Biden.
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@Aqua-Letifer again, you really think that is a large % of the people?
75,000,000 voted for VP Biden. How many actually are doing things like you said?
(I honestly don’t know , being somewhat removed from the situation).
Let’s say it is 150000 people doing what you are talking about. Seems like a big number but it is only 0.2% of the people who voted for VP Biden.
wrote on 9 Nov 2020, 16:36 last edited by@taiwan_girl said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
@Aqua-Letifer again, you really think that is a large % of the people?
75,000,000 voted for VP Biden. How many actually are doing things like you said?
(I honestly don’t know , being somewhat removed from the situation).
Let’s say it is 150000 people doing what you are talking about. Seems like a big number but it is only 0.2% of the people who voted for VP Biden.
I think Aqua is spot on.
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@Aqua-Letifer again, you really think that is a large % of the people?
75,000,000 voted for VP Biden. How many actually are doing things like you said?
(I honestly don’t know , being somewhat removed from the situation).
Let’s say it is 150000 people doing what you are talking about. Seems like a big number but it is only 0.2% of the people who voted for VP Biden.
wrote on 9 Nov 2020, 16:39 last edited by@taiwan_girl said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
@Aqua-Letifer again, you really think that is a large % of the people?
Ask Portland.
And yes, yes I do. I said in the other thread that I see this crap absolutely everywhere. I get it from family and friends, from the office, on LinkedIn of all places, on Instagram. And it's daily.
When I say LinkedIn and Instagram, I should make it clear that I don't follow influencers on that shit. I don't interact with people I don't know. So no, it's not the most extreme voices that are getting amplified, it's my family, friends, co-workers, colleagues, and folks who are into the same hobbies as me.
75,000,000 voted for VP Biden. How many actually are doing things like you said?
Enough that I literally can't get away from it unless I stop talking to people. And as I mentioned before, it's caused problems for me at work. A handful of times, and at different companies.
I'll trust my personal experiences over someone telling me what they think my personal experiences should be any day.
Let’s say it is 150000 people doing what you are talking about.
It's not. You're wrong about that.
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@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
Sure, and the left should take a long hard look at the number of people who voted for Trump.
That's the biggest problem. That's where all this stems from.
I have yet to hear any liberal voter outside this place acknowledge that Trump voters aren't racists. That's just the narrative now. There's no "well I understand your position on smaller government but I disagree." It's "you're the worst kind of person for voting for Donald Trump. It's so obvious you voted for Trump because you hate blacks, gays, women and/or immigrants."
That's the story.
wrote on 9 Nov 2020, 20:24 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
Sure, and the left should take a long hard look at the number of people who voted for Trump.
That's the biggest problem. That's where all this stems from.
I have yet to hear any liberal voter outside this place acknowledge that Trump voters aren't racists. That's just the narrative now. There's no "well I understand your position on smaller government but I disagree." It's "you're the worst kind of person for voting for Donald Trump. It's so obvious you voted for Trump because you hate blacks, gays, women and/or immigrants."
That's the story.
It’s regrettable that such things are said by people on the left, but as others have said as well, I doubt that that is the only story. Both sides have their nastiness to refer to. Take abortion for instance. It’s probably the most polarizing topic in the US and for that reason I’m more than a little hesitant to bring it up, but it’s quite illustrative.
If you’re someone who voted for Biden and you do some reading on this forum, you can bump into posts that not so subtly suggest that you are seen as someone who “has no problems killing babies in the womb”. You’re “pro-death”, a “baby killer”... Well, if that doesn’t make you feel as if the other side sees you as the most despicable human being on the planet I don’t know what does! And the pro-life movement isn’t quite innocent when it comes to the use of violence.
You may feel it coming more from the left side right now, and who knows, maybe it will get worse. But the above was just an example on how the right can stigmatise the left just as badly as the other way around. And the fact that many people of both sides are apparently all too eager to put practically everyone of the other side in a box, seems to me to be where all this stems from.
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wrote on 9 Nov 2020, 20:30 last edited by
Nunatax, as Aqua says, you are wrong. No one has lost their job because they support gay marriage or because they acknowledge <SJW cause du jour>. Many, many people have because they ran afoul of the left.
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Nunatax, as Aqua says, you are wrong. No one has lost their job because they support gay marriage or because they acknowledge <SJW cause du jour>. Many, many people have because they ran afoul of the left.
wrote on 9 Nov 2020, 20:51 last edited by@Mik and I’m not trying to minimise that, nor am I trying to deny that this could be the most direct cause of Trump’s election and the current state of things in your country. What I’m trying to say is that I don’t think it is the root cause.
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wrote on 9 Nov 2020, 21:19 last edited by
Nunatax, do you think it's ok to deliver a baby, and cut it's throat while it's legs are still coming out of its mother?
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
Sure, and the left should take a long hard look at the number of people who voted for Trump.
That's the biggest problem. That's where all this stems from.
I have yet to hear any liberal voter outside this place acknowledge that Trump voters aren't racists. That's just the narrative now. There's no "well I understand your position on smaller government but I disagree." It's "you're the worst kind of person for voting for Donald Trump. It's so obvious you voted for Trump because you hate blacks, gays, women and/or immigrants."
That's the story.
It’s regrettable that such things are said by people on the left, but as others have said as well, I doubt that that is the only story. Both sides have their nastiness to refer to. Take abortion for instance. It’s probably the most polarizing topic in the US and for that reason I’m more than a little hesitant to bring it up, but it’s quite illustrative.
If you’re someone who voted for Biden and you do some reading on this forum, you can bump into posts that not so subtly suggest that you are seen as someone who “has no problems killing babies in the womb”. You’re “pro-death”, a “baby killer”... Well, if that doesn’t make you feel as if the other side sees you as the most despicable human being on the planet I don’t know what does! And the pro-life movement isn’t quite innocent when it comes to the use of violence.
You may feel it coming more from the left side right now, and who knows, maybe it will get worse. But the above was just an example on how the right can stigmatise the left just as badly as the other way around. And the fact that many people of both sides are apparently all too eager to put practically everyone of the other side in a box, seems to me to be where all this stems from.
wrote on 9 Nov 2020, 21:38 last edited by Aqua Letifer 11 Sept 2020, 21:38@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
If you’re someone who voted for Biden and you do some reading on this forum, you can bump into posts that not so subtly suggest that you are seen as someone who “has no problems killing babies in the womb”. You’re “pro-death”, a “baby killer”... Well, if that doesn’t make you feel as if the other side sees you as the most despicable human being on the planet I don’t know what does!
If you want to cherry-pick nasty comments online then sure, yeah, okay, both sides guilty. But I'm not talking about nasty comments. If you think I am then you're not paying attention.
I want you to take a long, hard look at cancel culture and ask who's losing their jobs and why. Whose personal information is being publicized for harassment purposes and why. Who's doing the real, actual public property destruction. Who's demonizing public services as institutions. Who's turning entire universities upside-down. That shit didn't happen at Liberty or Campbell.
Link to videoI'm serious. Take a long time compiling that information. Try to find out which side on the political spectrum is engaging in this kind of behavior more.
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wrote on 9 Nov 2020, 22:14 last edited by
Aqua is spot on. If anybody is interested in the good vs evil narrative, that's where I've found it to be, within my lifetime.
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wrote on 10 Nov 2020, 01:53 last edited by
Agreed. And this has been going on at least 8 years that I know of.
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wrote on 10 Nov 2020, 02:38 last edited by
And getting worse.
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wrote on 10 Nov 2020, 02:53 last edited by Mik 11 Oct 2020, 03:14
And I mean personally know of, someone I know. A friend in the theater community got ousted from his job because his name showed up on a list of donors for definition of marriage proposition.
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And I mean personally know of, someone I know. A friend in the theater community got ousted from his job because his name showed up on a list of donors for definition of marriage proposition.
wrote on 10 Nov 2020, 03:08 last edited by@Mik said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
And I mean personally know of, someone I know. A friend in the theater community got ousted from his job because his name showed up on a list of donors against for definition of marriage proposition.
Same. I started noticing it personally around 2015 or so.
Prior to that, I thought such claims were due to outspoken conservatives just being whiny. I didn't believe it was a thing.
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wrote on 10 Nov 2020, 03:19 last edited by
Aqua, from way up in this thread:
"Last year, I had an HR complaint filed against me from a woman of an under-represented minority in which my gender and my height were used as evidence of my creating a threatening scenario. I was told I have to keep my gender and my height in mind when conversing with this person, and with others."Your height. That's funny. Beyond ridiculous.
I had a formal complaint lodged against me for "using a deep male voice."
No kidding.
And as uncomfortable as the discussion resulting from the complaint was, everyone was obliged to treat it seriously, as if it somehow contained that special "your truth" perspective which is outcome-based idiocy.
Imagine if I were taller, and an even deeper voice! Shudder to think. . .
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wrote on 10 Nov 2020, 04:28 last edited by
You rang?
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wrote on 10 Nov 2020, 04:49 last edited by
Aqua, thank you for bringing this forward so well. It is happening, and it's spreading.
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@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
If you’re someone who voted for Biden and you do some reading on this forum, you can bump into posts that not so subtly suggest that you are seen as someone who “has no problems killing babies in the womb”. You’re “pro-death”, a “baby killer”... Well, if that doesn’t make you feel as if the other side sees you as the most despicable human being on the planet I don’t know what does!
If you want to cherry-pick nasty comments online then sure, yeah, okay, both sides guilty. But I'm not talking about nasty comments. If you think I am then you're not paying attention.
I want you to take a long, hard look at cancel culture and ask who's losing their jobs and why. Whose personal information is being publicized for harassment purposes and why. Who's doing the real, actual public property destruction. Who's demonizing public services as institutions. Who's turning entire universities upside-down. That shit didn't happen at Liberty or Campbell.
Link to videoI'm serious. Take a long time compiling that information. Try to find out which side on the political spectrum is engaging in this kind of behavior more.
wrote on 10 Nov 2020, 07:32 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer I don’t know in what other ways you apparently require me to say this, but I will repeat again that I’m not trying to minimise or deny any of what you are saying. And many on this board who I believe are more left leaning at the very least (though I could be wrong about their political ideas), back you on this as well. That’s good, no?
So yes, there’s little doubt in my mind that these issues on the left (perhaps to some extent in combination with the Hillary Clinton-factor), are the main driver of Trump’s rise and his continued support after 4 years as evidenced by the many votes he still got. And right at this moment in time, that’s definitely on the democrats (or at least a great deal of them).
Here’s where I see a potentially big problem though that may really hinder addressing this problem: because these issues at this point in time seem to be mainly democrat driven, the other side sees this as an excuse not to have to look at themselves. And from what I see, the right side has its own of such ideas that can easily grow to problems of the same magnitude as you see on the left side right now. That’s not to blame anyone, and there’s nothing wrong with introspection. On the contrary, it’s interesting and can help you grow. But if the right is going to insist that only the left is in need of introspection, I don’t see how you’re going to get out of the woods anytime soon.
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@Aqua-Letifer I don’t know in what other ways you apparently require me to say this, but I will repeat again that I’m not trying to minimise or deny any of what you are saying. And many on this board who I believe are more left leaning at the very least (though I could be wrong about their political ideas), back you on this as well. That’s good, no?
So yes, there’s little doubt in my mind that these issues on the left (perhaps to some extent in combination with the Hillary Clinton-factor), are the main driver of Trump’s rise and his continued support after 4 years as evidenced by the many votes he still got. And right at this moment in time, that’s definitely on the democrats (or at least a great deal of them).
Here’s where I see a potentially big problem though that may really hinder addressing this problem: because these issues at this point in time seem to be mainly democrat driven, the other side sees this as an excuse not to have to look at themselves. And from what I see, the right side has its own of such ideas that can easily grow to problems of the same magnitude as you see on the left side right now. That’s not to blame anyone, and there’s nothing wrong with introspection. On the contrary, it’s interesting and can help you grow. But if the right is going to insist that only the left is in need of introspection, I don’t see how you’re going to get out of the woods anytime soon.
wrote on 10 Nov 2020, 08:03 last edited by Aqua Letifer 11 Oct 2020, 08:05@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
Here’s where I see a potentially big problem though that may really hinder addressing this problem: because these issues at this point in time seem to be mainly democrat driven, the other side sees this as an excuse not to have to look at themselves. And from what I see, the right side has its own of such ideas that can easily grow to problems of the same magnitude as you see on the left side right now. That’s not to blame anyone, and there’s nothing wrong with introspection. On the contrary, it’s interesting and can help you grow. But if the right is going to insist that only the left is in need of introspection, I don’t see how you’re going to get out of the woods anytime soon.
Well, any kind of extremity is bad of course, and the right are definitely learning from their adversaries and picking up some of their bad habits. Things like victimhood culture, exacerbating controversies, etc.
But it's a matter of priorities and a comparative scale of threat. You're talking about fire hazards in the conservative household. Fair enough, fire hazards are bad and should be eliminated. But our neighbors to the left already have a full-on structure fire going, and worse, no one is calling the fire department.
I honestly care very little about the missteps of conservatives for the time being because conservatives have not been nearly as effective in creating societal distress. Far more improvement would be made putting the liberal fires out rather than worrying about conservatives.
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@Nunatax said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
Sure, and the left should take a long hard look at the number of people who voted for Trump.
That's the biggest problem. That's where all this stems from.
I have yet to hear any liberal voter outside this place acknowledge that Trump voters aren't racists. That's just the narrative now. There's no "well I understand your position on smaller government but I disagree." It's "you're the worst kind of person for voting for Donald Trump. It's so obvious you voted for Trump because you hate blacks, gays, women and/or immigrants."
That's the story.
wrote on 10 Nov 2020, 08:47 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Can we at least end one narrative?:
I have yet to hear any liberal voter outside this place acknowledge that Trump voters aren't racists.
I'm not a liberal but I for one have never thought of the majority of Trump voters as being racists. Racism is not the problem with Trump.
