Where's Kim?
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wrote on 21 Apr 2020, 12:55 last edited by
It’s hard to say. We’ve seen leaders go quickly and we’ve seen leaders live through many death and near death rumors.
I would give greater than 50/50 but how much would be spit balling.
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wrote on 21 Apr 2020, 13:04 last edited by
We should be so lucky. But I suspect there is only so long a regime like that can last in today's world.
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We should be so lucky. But I suspect there is only so long a regime like that can last in today's world.
wrote on 21 Apr 2020, 13:12 last edited by@Mik said in Where's Kim?:
We should be so lucky. But I suspect there is only so long a regime like that can last in today's world.
My understanding is that his sister is next in line for succession. I'll hazard a guess that she's no better.
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@Mik said in Where's Kim?:
We should be so lucky. But I suspect there is only so long a regime like that can last in today's world.
My understanding is that his sister is next in line for succession. I'll hazard a guess that she's no better.
wrote on 21 Apr 2020, 13:46 last edited by@George-K said in Where's Kim?:
@Mik said in Where's Kim?:
We should be so lucky. But I suspect there is only so long a regime like that can last in today's world.
My understanding is that his sister is next in line for succession. I'll hazard a guess that she's no better.
Everything that i have seen, read, and heard, she is not. LOL
I have asked some people what they have heard, but even in normal times, information is hard to get. Now, embassy row in Pyongyang is locked down also, so any limited movement foreigners had before is gone.
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wrote on 21 Apr 2020, 14:08 last edited by brenda
If he dies, what do you suppose will become the official narrative? It has to be a story that makes him and the family look completely powerful and in charge, and perhaps endears Kim and the family to the populace.
Maybe a sudden and tragic horse riding accident while he was racing to save a child in danger? Nah. Not spectacular enough.
Maybe they'll try to blame his death on their most hated political opponents or another hated nation. He might be able to achieve martyrdom if told well. That sounds more likely.
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wrote on 21 Apr 2020, 14:14 last edited by
Kim died trying to take down TNCR.
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If he dies, what do you suppose will become the official narrative? It has to be a story that makes him and the family look completely powerful and in charge, and perhaps endears Kim and the family to the populace.
Maybe a sudden and tragic horse riding accident while he was racing to save a child in danger? Nah. Not spectacular enough.
Maybe they'll try to blame his death on their most hated political opponents or another hated nation. He might be able to achieve martyrdom if told well. That sounds more likely.
wrote on 21 Apr 2020, 14:38 last edited byI think that they will be "mostly" truthful. When his father and grandfather died, the official story seems to be following what actually happened.
But, you are right in that there will be "spin" to it. His body was weakened because of the 28 hour days he did to help the people of DPRK, etc etc
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wrote on 21 Apr 2020, 14:43 last edited by
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@Mik said in Where's Kim?:
We should be so lucky. But I suspect there is only so long a regime like that can last in today's world.
My understanding is that his sister is next in line for succession. I'll hazard a guess that she's no better.
wrote on 21 Apr 2020, 15:08 last edited by@George-K said in Where's Kim?:
@Mik said in Where's Kim?:
We should be so lucky. But I suspect there is only so long a regime like that can last in today's world.
My understanding is that his sister is next in line for succession. I'll hazard a guess that she's no better.
She's definitely better looking. If she took power, it might be excruciatingly embarrassing watching certain other world leaders (who shall rename nameless) attempting to complement her on her looks.
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wrote on 21 Apr 2020, 17:38 last edited by
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wrote on 25 Apr 2020, 12:15 last edited by
https://nodebb.the-new-coffee-room.club/topic/809/kin-jong-un-reportedly-dead
https://www.newsweek.com/north-korea-china-kim-jong-un-1500197
The state-controlled media in North Korea focused on the founding of its armed forces on Saturday as its supreme leader Kim Jong Un remained absent amid reports that a Chinese medical team was assessing his health status.
South Korean news agency Yonhap reported that television coverage in the secretive northern state spent the day trumpeting the 88th anniversary of the birth of the Korean People's Revolutionary Army (KPRA), which falls on April 25, without the nation's chief heralding the event.
In 2014, Kim disappeared for more than a month before reemerging on North Korean media sporting a limp. Renowned as a heavy smoker, and having gained weight since he assumed power in 2011 after his father Kim Jong-Il died from a heart attack, there has been speculation about his health, especially given his family history of cardiovascular problems.
Reuters reported that a South Korean source said that Kim was alive and would soon make a public appearance.
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wrote on 25 Apr 2020, 14:37 last edited by taiwan_girl
AN article I was reading in local press was that he was in for a procedure to install a stent, which should(?) only take a minute or two.
But the doctor was so nervous, that it took much much longer and Premier Kim was without oxygen for a longer period, and is suffering the effects of that and is in a vegetable state.
Our forum doctors can probably say if the above is realistic or not.
As with any news about DPRK, it is mostly guessing.
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wrote on 25 Apr 2020, 14:53 last edited by
Mu first thought:
Link to video -
wrote on 25 Apr 2020, 15:45 last edited by
So how long can they do a weekend at Bernie’s. 6 months? 1 year?
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AN article I was reading in local press was that he was in for a procedure to install a stent, which should(?) only take a minute or two.
But the doctor was so nervous, that it took much much longer and Premier Kim was without oxygen for a longer period, and is suffering the effects of that and is in a vegetable state.
Our forum doctors can probably say if the above is realistic or not.
As with any news about DPRK, it is mostly guessing.
wrote on 25 Apr 2020, 15:49 last edited by@taiwan_girl said in Where's Kim?:
AN article I was reading in local press was that he was in for a procedure to install a stent, which should(?) only take a minute or two.
But the doctor was so nervous, that it took much much longer and Premier Kim was without oxygen for a longer period, and is suffering the effects of that and is in a vegetable state.
Our forum doctors can probably say if the above is realistic or not.
As with any news about DPRK, it is mostly guessing.
So I believe a team of doctors from China came, whether or not he is in a vegetative state is probably the speculative part.
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wrote on 25 Apr 2020, 16:51 last edited by
Putting in a stent is not a trivial affair, by any means. It involves getting a wire into a coronary artery from a remote location (groin, wrist or arm artery). Then a balloon with the stent is placed over the wire. The balloon is inflated, unclogging the artery, and the stent is then deployed to keep the artery open.
There are many dangerous parts of the procedure: inserting the wire through an obstruction can send debris down the artery causing ischemia farther down. The artery can be ruptured by the inflation of the balloon, or the inflation can send debris distally as well. Putting a wire into the heart can cause all kinds of heart arrythmias, some potentially lethal. The patient is sedated, potentially causing all kinds of anesthesia issues (airway, inadequate breathing, etc). The last thing I'd want to do is have to intubate that fat little guy.
So, it's not simple, doesn't take "a minute," etc. Certainly, if the anatomy is favorable, it's a far better thing than open heart surgery, but that's a judgment call by the cardiologist as to whether to stent or refer to a surgeon. If you recall, Jolly's anatomy dictated a CABG, not a stent.
Lots of things can go south, and when they do, it's a disaster. I hated catastrophes in the cath lab. Under best of circumstances, when that happens, you rush the patient to the OR for CABG. However, just transporting, getting an OR ready, etc takes time - precious time.
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wrote on 25 Apr 2020, 20:55 last edited by
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Putting in a stent is not a trivial affair, by any means. It involves getting a wire into a coronary artery from a remote location (groin, wrist or arm artery). Then a balloon with the stent is placed over the wire. The balloon is inflated, unclogging the artery, and the stent is then deployed to keep the artery open.
There are many dangerous parts of the procedure: inserting the wire through an obstruction can send debris down the artery causing ischemia farther down. The artery can be ruptured by the inflation of the balloon, or the inflation can send debris distally as well. Putting a wire into the heart can cause all kinds of heart arrythmias, some potentially lethal. The patient is sedated, potentially causing all kinds of anesthesia issues (airway, inadequate breathing, etc). The last thing I'd want to do is have to intubate that fat little guy.
So, it's not simple, doesn't take "a minute," etc. Certainly, if the anatomy is favorable, it's a far better thing than open heart surgery, but that's a judgment call by the cardiologist as to whether to stent or refer to a surgeon. If you recall, Jolly's anatomy dictated a CABG, not a stent.
Lots of things can go south, and when they do, it's a disaster. I hated catastrophes in the cath lab. Under best of circumstances, when that happens, you rush the patient to the OR for CABG. However, just transporting, getting an OR ready, etc takes time - precious time.
wrote on 25 Apr 2020, 20:59 last edited by@George-K said in Where's Kim?:
Putting in a stent is not a trivial affair, by any means. It involves getting a wire into a coronary artery from a remote location (groin, wrist or arm artery). Then a balloon with the stent is placed over the wire. The balloon is inflated, unclogging the artery, and the stent is then deployed to keep the artery open.
There are many dangerous parts of the procedure: inserting the wire through an obstruction can send debris down the artery causing ischemia farther down. The artery can be ruptured by the inflation of the balloon, or the inflation can send debris distally as well. Putting a wire into the heart can cause all kinds of heart arrythmias, some potentially lethal. The patient is sedated, potentially causing all kinds of anesthesia issues (airway, inadequate breathing, etc). The last thing I'd want to do is have to intubate that fat little guy.
So, it's not simple, doesn't take "a minute," etc. Certainly, if the anatomy is favorable, it's a far better thing than open heart surgery, but that's a judgment call by the cardiologist as to whether to stent or refer to a surgeon. If you recall, Jolly's anatomy dictated a CABG, not a stent.
Lots of things can go south, and when they do, it's a disaster. I hated catastrophes in the cath lab. Under best of circumstances, when that happens, you rush the patient to the OR for CABG. However, just transporting, getting an OR ready, etc takes time - precious time.
So you are saying you can create a credible rumor by merely saying he had a stent put in?
I still give it less than a coin toss odds. Parlor game right now...or he’s dead and there is lots of planning around what’s next before it’s announced. China would have a huge mess on its hands and could use the time. On the other hand Kim might be enjoying a sequel to his first head fake.
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@George-K said in Where's Kim?:
Putting in a stent is not a trivial affair, by any means. It involves getting a wire into a coronary artery from a remote location (groin, wrist or arm artery). Then a balloon with the stent is placed over the wire. The balloon is inflated, unclogging the artery, and the stent is then deployed to keep the artery open.
There are many dangerous parts of the procedure: inserting the wire through an obstruction can send debris down the artery causing ischemia farther down. The artery can be ruptured by the inflation of the balloon, or the inflation can send debris distally as well. Putting a wire into the heart can cause all kinds of heart arrythmias, some potentially lethal. The patient is sedated, potentially causing all kinds of anesthesia issues (airway, inadequate breathing, etc). The last thing I'd want to do is have to intubate that fat little guy.
So, it's not simple, doesn't take "a minute," etc. Certainly, if the anatomy is favorable, it's a far better thing than open heart surgery, but that's a judgment call by the cardiologist as to whether to stent or refer to a surgeon. If you recall, Jolly's anatomy dictated a CABG, not a stent.
Lots of things can go south, and when they do, it's a disaster. I hated catastrophes in the cath lab. Under best of circumstances, when that happens, you rush the patient to the OR for CABG. However, just transporting, getting an OR ready, etc takes time - precious time.
So you are saying you can create a credible rumor by merely saying he had a stent put in?
I still give it less than a coin toss odds. Parlor game right now...or he’s dead and there is lots of planning around what’s next before it’s announced. China would have a huge mess on its hands and could use the time. On the other hand Kim might be enjoying a sequel to his first head fake.
wrote on 25 Apr 2020, 21:25 last edited by George K@Loki said in Where's Kim?:
So you are saying you can create a credible rumor by merely saying he had a stent put in?
No, I'm saying that I've seen more than a handful of patients have catastrophes while on the cath table during a stent placement. Not many, but more than a handful in 35 years of being on the heart surgery team. If Kim had a stent put in, it is within the realms of possibility that things didn't go well. I have no idea how talented the cardiologists in North Korea are, but I would not go there for my procedure.
It happens, and when you add complicating factors, like obesity, smoking, etc., the risks escalate.
In the early days of doing this (I'm talking late 1980s to early 1990s, every time the cath lab was going to place a stent, or do an angioplasty, everyone on the heart surgery team was required to be in-house during the procedure, lest things go pear-shaped. As the cardiologists got better at it, that requirement was dropped. What do you think the skills of North Korean cardiologists are? How commonly do they place stents/do angioplasty. My guess is rare. With experience comes expertise. With expertise, complications go down.
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wrote on 25 Apr 2020, 22:02 last edited by
https://www.tmz.com/2020/04/25/north-korea-dictator-kim-jong-un-dead-dies-heart-surgery-reports/
North Korea's Supreme Leader/dictator Kim Jong-un has reportedly died, or is on his death bed with no hope for recuperation -- according to media outlets in China and Japan.
Amid reports China has sent a medical team to their communist neighbors this week to check in/advise on Kim, a Hong Kong-backed news channel's vice director -- who's apparently the niece of a Chinese foreign minister -- blasted out the news herself ... he's dead. TMZ has not confirmed that.
The woman put the report on a social media app called Weibo for her nearly 15 million followers to read, citing a "very solid source" about the claim Kim had, in fact, perished. A Japanese magazine reports he's in a "vegetative state" after a heart surgery gone wrong.
The outlet reports -- citing a Chinese medical expert privy to the situation -- that Kim had clutched his chest in early April and fell down while visiting the countryside there. He needed a stent procedure done, but apparently ... it either wasn't done rapidly enough, or it was botched completely by the surgeon -- with some reports saying he had shaky hands.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
