Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?
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https://gript.ie/real-talk-have-facemasks-failed/
There’s probably been no more contentious subject in Ireland over the past six months or so than the question of mandatory facemasks. There are bigger questions, sure, on which the population is more evenly divided – lockdown or no lockdown; schools open, or schools closed; the infernal debate about “wet pubs”, and so on.
But no subject provokes more passionate disagreement from a minority of Irish people than the question of wearing a facemask. For most of us, it’s a common sense healthcare measure – we feel safer, we feel like we’re doing our bit, and we feel like it’s not a huge imposition.
For a minority, though, this has been the number one cause of resentment and disagreement. To them, facemasks have always been medically useless, as well as an unconscionable imposition on a person’s bodily autonomy. They’re nothing less, in this telling, than a symbol of tyranny.
Most people have little sympathy with the latter part of that argument. But what about the first part of it?
Where is the evidence that near-universal mask wearing has worked to suppress Covid 19?
Ireland has now had more than one thousand daily cases for five consecutive days. Two of those days have set new records for the number of cases recorded here in a single day.
Across Europe, the picture is the same: Near universal mask wearing, and near universal record-setting in terms of the number of new cases.
As a simple matter of observation, if mask wearing was supposed to reduce the number of Coronavirus cases, it has not worked.
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There is a really interesting case the CDC has been looking at, that has caused them to change the definition of close contact.
A prison guard, wearing a disposable gown and facemask, had multiple brief interactions with several COVID positive, asymptomatic prisoners. The prisoners wore facemask during the interactions.
Total interaction time was in excess of fifteen minutes. Guard came down with symptoms a week or so after interacting with the prisoners.
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Back to talking about mask wearing...I see a lot of ill-fitting masks, masks worn improperly and lousy infection control practices while wearing a mask.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Trump’s fault!
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I think masks can help a little but nearly as much as proponents think. Social distancing is still the most effective way to slow the spread.
Still, though, we are in the beginning of a 3rd wave that looks like it will be massively larger than what’s come before. Fortunately, the treatments seem to be much better and the outcomes are generally better so maybe we won’t crash the system? I am going to go ahead and restock in essentials again, though, just in case.
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I think masks can help a little but nearly as much as proponents think. Social distancing is still the most effective way to slow the spread.
Still, though, we are in the beginning of a 3rd wave that looks like it will be massively larger than what’s come before. Fortunately, the treatments seem to be much better and the outcomes are generally better so maybe we won’t crash the system? I am going to go ahead and restock in essentials again, though, just in case.
@LuFins-Dad said in Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?:
beginning of a 3rd wave that looks like it will be massively larger than what’s come before
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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It's really a second wave in Europe, third wave over here.
I must admit, I'm not feeling very optimistic at the moment.
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Back to talking about mask wearing...I see a lot of ill-fitting masks, masks worn improperly and lousy infection control practices while wearing a mask.
@Jolly said in Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?:
Back to talking about mask wearing...I see a lot of ill-fitting masks, masks worn improperly and lousy infection control practices while wearing a mask.
Ayup. People don't always know how to wear one, or don't want to know, don't want to wear it properly, or want to take it on and off repeatedly every few minutes. They touch their faces while wearing it or immediately after removal. They wear things that are not masks, which offer little or no protection, or that are made from inappropriate material. We can't say masks don't work when so many people are making them not work.
The whole six feet thing has been shown to be too close. It needs to be more like 10 to 12 feet.
And then there are the bars and pubs, where a few drinks makes folks chummy and huggy, They remove the mask to drink, and it seldom gets put on again during the evening.
It's a user problem.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?:
beginning of a 3rd wave that looks like it will be massively larger than what’s come before
@George-K said in Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?:
@LuFins-Dad said in Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?:
beginning of a 3rd wave that looks like it will be massively larger than what’s come before
Fucking hell, that’s not a wave that’s a tsunami. Aren’t they wearing masks?
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@George-K said in Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?:
@LuFins-Dad said in Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?:
beginning of a 3rd wave that looks like it will be massively larger than what’s come before
Fucking hell, that’s not a wave that’s a tsunami. Aren’t they wearing masks?
@LuFins-Dad said in Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?:
Fucking hell, that’s not a wave that’s a tsunami. Aren’t they wearing masks?
Schools have been open five days a week, lots of people are working in the office. Pubs and bars are open. Population density is 3.5 times higher than in the US. It's not really a surprise.
I was only joking
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Schools open in the US don’t seem to be a major factor...
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/schools-arent-superspreaders/616669/ -
Schools open in the US don’t seem to be a major factor...
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/schools-arent-superspreaders/616669/@LuFins-Dad said in Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?:
Schools open in the US don’t seem to be a major factor...
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/10/schools-arent-superspreaders/616669/That defies everything that happens with viruses and bacteria that are far, far less infectious. Excuse me if I wait awhile longer to see more information before concluding this.
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I don't know what it's like in the rest of the country, but here the schools are not operating in a normal way. The kids go into school 2 days a week, work in small groups or alone 2 days a week, and have online lessons one day a week. So, the school population is roughly 50% of normal to enable distancing. In the UK, my nieces and nephews are going in 5 days a week.
I would also say that the Atlantic article is very opinionated. They clearly have an argument to push.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?:
beginning of a 3rd wave that looks like it will be massively larger than what’s come before
@George-K said in Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?:
@LuFins-Dad said in Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?:
beginning of a 3rd wave that looks like it will be massively larger than what’s come before
The election narrative is the US is the worst. You can’t publish this stuff.
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@Mik said in Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?:
I think the benefits are obvious,
That's the problem.
Everyone (almost everyone) just knows that it works.
As far as I know there is absolutely no proof.
But a mask is no guarantee of anything, you have to take it on faith.
You can't point at a case caused by not wearing a mask.
You can't point at a case prevented by wearing a mask.
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No, there's no proof, but there's evidence.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/
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@LuFins-Dad said in Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?:
Fucking hell, that’s not a wave that’s a tsunami. Aren’t they wearing masks?
Schools have been open five days a week, lots of people are working in the office. Pubs and bars are open. Population density is 3.5 times higher than in the US. It's not really a surprise.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?:
@LuFins-Dad said in Another Contrarian View on Masks - have they done anything?:
Fucking hell, that’s not a wave that’s a tsunami. Aren’t they wearing masks?
Schools have been open five days a week, lots of people are working in the office. Pubs and bars are open. Population density is 3.5 times higher than in the US. It's not really a surprise.
The third world is always worse. That's why it's third.
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Dude, you live in California.
