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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test

Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test

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  • G George K
    5 Oct 2020, 16:24

    In my no-so-educated opinion, a lot of what I read about osteopaths doing OMT for various conditions strikes me as quackery. OMT for otitis media? C'mon, man!

    OTOH, there seems to be a crossover between osteopathic treatments and physical therapy. I my series of one, I developed serious cervical foramenal stenosis. I was plagued by pain, numbness and weakness on the ulnar distribution of my left arm. Saw a neurosurgeon who, after looking at the MRI, said I needed PT.

    Between exercises and PT, I became symptom free, and I remain that way 18 months later.

    So, yeah, there's something to it, but one has to know where the line should be drawn. All the osteopaths I know are aware of that line.

    Chiropracters? Not so much.

    H Offline
    H Offline
    Horace
    wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:27 last edited by
    #206

    @George-K said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

    In my no-so-educated opinion, a lot of what I read about osteopaths doing OMT for various conditions strikes me as quackery. OMT for otitis media? C'mon, man!

    OTOH, there seems to be a crossover between osteopathic treatments and physical therapy. I my series of one, I developed serious cervical foramenal stenosis. I was plagued by pain, numbness and weakness on the ulnar distribution of my left arm. Saw a neurosurgeon who, after looking at the MRI, said I needed PT.

    Between exercises and PT, I became symptom free, and I remain that way 18 months later.

    So, yeah, there's something to it, but one has to know where the line should be drawn. All the osteopaths I know are aware of that line.

    Chiropracters? Not so much.

    The last time I spoke to a chiropractor in his office it was at his invitation, so he could offer me an opportunity to invest in some financial products he sells as a side gig.

    Education is extremely important.

    A 1 Reply Last reply 5 Oct 2020, 16:27
    • H Horace
      5 Oct 2020, 16:27

      @George-K said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

      In my no-so-educated opinion, a lot of what I read about osteopaths doing OMT for various conditions strikes me as quackery. OMT for otitis media? C'mon, man!

      OTOH, there seems to be a crossover between osteopathic treatments and physical therapy. I my series of one, I developed serious cervical foramenal stenosis. I was plagued by pain, numbness and weakness on the ulnar distribution of my left arm. Saw a neurosurgeon who, after looking at the MRI, said I needed PT.

      Between exercises and PT, I became symptom free, and I remain that way 18 months later.

      So, yeah, there's something to it, but one has to know where the line should be drawn. All the osteopaths I know are aware of that line.

      Chiropracters? Not so much.

      The last time I spoke to a chiropractor in his office it was at his invitation, so he could offer me an opportunity to invest in some financial products he sells as a side gig.

      A Offline
      A Offline
      Aqua Letifer
      wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:27 last edited by
      #207

      @Horace said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

      @George-K said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

      In my no-so-educated opinion, a lot of what I read about osteopaths doing OMT for various conditions strikes me as quackery. OMT for otitis media? C'mon, man!

      OTOH, there seems to be a crossover between osteopathic treatments and physical therapy. I my series of one, I developed serious cervical foramenal stenosis. I was plagued by pain, numbness and weakness on the ulnar distribution of my left arm. Saw a neurosurgeon who, after looking at the MRI, said I needed PT.

      Between exercises and PT, I became symptom free, and I remain that way 18 months later.

      So, yeah, there's something to it, but one has to know where the line should be drawn. All the osteopaths I know are aware of that line.

      Chiropracters? Not so much.

      The last time I spoke to a chiropractor in his office it was at his invitation, so he could offer me an opportunity to invest in some financial products he sells as a side gig.

      That's awesome.

      Please love yourself.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • G Offline
        G Offline
        George K
        wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:29 last edited by
        #208

        See, here's the kind of BS that bothers me...

        Evidence-based osteopathic manipulative treatment for common conditions

        Osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT) is a unique aspect of osteopathic medicine that has served as a useful adjunct to traditional surgical and pharmacological treatment of medical conditions for more than 100 years. Using an approach based on five basic body functions, as well as traditional modern medical and surgical therapeutics, OMT enhances the body's innate ability to fight inflammation and other systemic results of disease states. OMT has been shown to be a safe and cost-effective treatment for back pain, in particular for patients who have continued pain despite standard treatments and for those who are unable or unwilling to take pain relievers. For patients with pneumonia, OMT can reduce the need for potentially dangerous antibiotics and reduce the length of a patient's hospital stay. In addition, in children with otitis media, OMT can be used as an adjunct to antibiotic and surgical treatment to decrease morbidity, reduce antibiotic usage, and decrease the discomfort associated with the symptoms of a middle ear infection.

        I see OMT as an extension of physical therapy.

        From Wiki:

        A 2005 Cochrane review of OMT in asthma treatment concluded that there was insufficient evidence that OMT can be used to treat asthma.

        In 2013, a Cochrane review reviewed six randomized controlled trials which investigated the effect of four types of chest physiotherapy (including OMT) as adjunctive treatments for pneumonia in adults and concluded that "based on current limited evidence, chest physiotherapy might not be recommended as routine additional treatment for pneumonia in adults." Techniques investigated in the study included paraspinal inhibition, rib raising, and myofascial release. The review found that OMT did not reduce mortality and did not increase cure rate, but that OMT slightly reduced the duration of hospital stay and antibiotic use.[54] A 2013 systematic review of the use of OMT for treating pediatric conditions concluded that its effectiveness was unproven.[55]

        In 2014, a systematic review and meta-analysis of 15 randomized controlled trials found moderate-quality evidence that OMT reduces pain and improves functional status in acute and chronic nonspecific low back pain.[56] The same analysis also found moderate-quality evidence for pain reduction for nonspecific low back pain in postpartum women and low-quality evidence for pain reduction in nonspecific low back pain in pregnant women.[56] A 2013 systematic review found insufficient evidence to rate osteopathic manipulation for chronic nonspecific low back pain.[57] In 2011, a systematic review found no compelling evidence that osteopathic manipulation was effective for the treatment of musculoskeletal pain.[58]

        A 2018 systematic review found that there is no evidence for the reliability or specific efficacy of the techniques used in visceral osteopathy.[59]

        The New England Journal of Medicine's 4 November 1999 issue concluded that patients with chronic low back pain can be treated effectively with manipulation.[60] The United Kingdom's National Health Service says there is "limited evidence" that osteopathy "may be effective for some types of neck, shoulder or lower limb pain and recovery after hip or knee operations", but that there is no evidence that osteopathy is effective as a treatment for health conditions unrelated to the bones and muscles.[61] Others have concluded that there is insufficient evidence to suggest efficacy for osteopathic style manipulation in treating musculoskeletal pain.[62]

        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • A Aqua Letifer
          5 Oct 2020, 16:27

          @Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

          @Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

          Klaus you're a smart guy, but I've tried to tell you many times that the term doesn't mean the same in the U.S. as it does in Europe. And now you're just being a bit of an asshole.

          I was talking about osteopathy the whole time, which I made unambiguously clear. The Wikipedia article on osteopathy starts with the sentence "Osteopathy is a type of alternative medicine". Which means: "not evidence-based". I do understand what the American DO education entails. But that's not what I have addressed.

          Nice backtrack!

          Even if somebody has all the knowledge that a normal medical doctor has, the fact that (s)he's willing to put up with witchcraft in one domain would make me question the overall trustworthiness.

          No, you were saying DOs were crap doctors because they didn't renounce that part of their training because in your eyes it's quackery.

          K Offline
          K Offline
          Klaus
          wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:32 last edited by
          #209

          @Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

          No, you were saying DOs were crap doctors because they didn't renounce that part of their training because in your eyes it's quackery.

          Well, I still stand by that statement. But of course a DO can still do a great job. I was merely saying that I wouldn't trust somebody who does evidence-based medicine AND some form of "alternative medicine" because, in my opinion, it spoils their credibility. I assume you grant me the freedom to choose myself whom I trust?

          D A 2 Replies Last reply 5 Oct 2020, 16:35
          • D Offline
            D Offline
            Doctor Phibes
            wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:32 last edited by
            #210

            I got the impression that chiropractors stop it (whatever it is) hurting for a limited time, but then you end up going back once it starts hurting again.

            So, basically they're like really expensive pain-killers that don't damage your liver.

            I was only joking

            1 Reply Last reply
            • H Horace
              5 Oct 2020, 16:23

              Just kidding. I thought it was funny how stern Aqua was being.

              K Offline
              K Offline
              Klaus
              wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:32 last edited by
              #211

              @Horace said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

              Just kidding.

              Now I'm disappointed.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • H Offline
                H Offline
                Horace
                wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:34 last edited by
                #212

                My extraordinary compassion prevents me from hurting people’s feelings.

                Education is extremely important.

                K 1 Reply Last reply 5 Oct 2020, 16:35
                • H Horace
                  5 Oct 2020, 16:34

                  My extraordinary compassion prevents me from hurting people’s feelings.

                  K Offline
                  K Offline
                  Klaus
                  wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:35 last edited by
                  #213

                  @Horace said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                  My extraordinary compassion prevents me from hurting people’s feelings.

                  Does osteopathy help against hurt feelings?

                  H A 2 Replies Last reply 5 Oct 2020, 16:37
                  • K Klaus
                    5 Oct 2020, 16:32

                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                    No, you were saying DOs were crap doctors because they didn't renounce that part of their training because in your eyes it's quackery.

                    Well, I still stand by that statement. But of course a DO can still do a great job. I was merely saying that I wouldn't trust somebody who does evidence-based medicine AND some form of "alternative medicine" because, in my opinion, it spoils their credibility. I assume you grant me the freedom to choose myself whom I trust?

                    D Offline
                    D Offline
                    Doctor Phibes
                    wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:35 last edited by
                    #214

                    @Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                    No, you were saying DOs were crap doctors because they didn't renounce that part of their training because in your eyes it's quackery.

                    Well, I still stand by that statement. But of course a DO can still do a great job. I was merely saying that I wouldn't trust somebody who does evidence-based medicine AND some form of "alternative medicine" because, in my opinion, it spoils their credibility. I assume you grant me the freedom to choose myself whom I trust?

                    It's a bit like Ben Carson. Awesome brain surgeon, but completely nutty views about other stuff. I'd still have been happy about him doing my brain surgery, but wouldn't want him involved in, say, food storage policy.

                    I was only joking

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • K Klaus
                      5 Oct 2020, 16:32

                      @Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                      No, you were saying DOs were crap doctors because they didn't renounce that part of their training because in your eyes it's quackery.

                      Well, I still stand by that statement. But of course a DO can still do a great job. I was merely saying that I wouldn't trust somebody who does evidence-based medicine AND some form of "alternative medicine" because, in my opinion, it spoils their credibility. I assume you grant me the freedom to choose myself whom I trust?

                      A Offline
                      A Offline
                      Aqua Letifer
                      wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:35 last edited by
                      #215

                      @Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                      @Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                      No, you were saying DOs were crap doctors because they didn't renounce that part of their training because in your eyes it's quackery.

                      Well, I still stand by that statement. But of course a DO can still do a great job. I was merely saying that I wouldn't trust somebody who does evidence-based medicine AND some form of "alternative medicine" because, in my opinion, it spoils their credibility. I assume you grant me the freedom to choose myself whom I trust?

                      I think it's pretty obvious you have an internet understanding at best of the difference between European osteopaths and American DOs, so you really shouldn't even conclude that much at present. But yeah absolutely, free country, yours and mine!

                      Please love yourself.

                      D K 2 Replies Last reply 5 Oct 2020, 16:36
                      • A Aqua Letifer
                        5 Oct 2020, 16:35

                        @Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                        No, you were saying DOs were crap doctors because they didn't renounce that part of their training because in your eyes it's quackery.

                        Well, I still stand by that statement. But of course a DO can still do a great job. I was merely saying that I wouldn't trust somebody who does evidence-based medicine AND some form of "alternative medicine" because, in my opinion, it spoils their credibility. I assume you grant me the freedom to choose myself whom I trust?

                        I think it's pretty obvious you have an internet understanding at best of the difference between European osteopaths and American DOs, so you really shouldn't even conclude that much at present. But yeah absolutely, free country, yours and mine!

                        D Offline
                        D Offline
                        Doctor Phibes
                        wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:36 last edited by
                        #216

                        @Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                        But yeah absolutely, free country, yours and mine!

                        It seems obvious that you have, at best, an internet understanding of freedom.

                        I was only joking

                        H A 2 Replies Last reply 5 Oct 2020, 16:39
                        • K Klaus
                          5 Oct 2020, 16:35

                          @Horace said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                          My extraordinary compassion prevents me from hurting people’s feelings.

                          Does osteopathy help against hurt feelings?

                          H Offline
                          H Offline
                          Horace
                          wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:37 last edited by
                          #217

                          @Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                          @Horace said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                          My extraordinary compassion prevents me from hurting people’s feelings.

                          Does osteopathy help against hurt feelings?

                          There’s little evidence that it does.

                          Education is extremely important.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • K Klaus
                            5 Oct 2020, 16:35

                            @Horace said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                            My extraordinary compassion prevents me from hurting people’s feelings.

                            Does osteopathy help against hurt feelings?

                            A Offline
                            A Offline
                            Aqua Letifer
                            wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:39 last edited by
                            #218

                            @Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                            @Horace said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                            My extraordinary compassion prevents me from hurting people’s feelings.

                            Does osteopathy help against hurt feelings?

                            Literally it does. DOs are currently undertaking an unprecedented study of how empathy changes over time in medical students. Oh and yes, it's scientific and evidence-based.

                            Please love yourself.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • A Aqua Letifer
                              5 Oct 2020, 16:35

                              @Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                              @Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                              No, you were saying DOs were crap doctors because they didn't renounce that part of their training because in your eyes it's quackery.

                              Well, I still stand by that statement. But of course a DO can still do a great job. I was merely saying that I wouldn't trust somebody who does evidence-based medicine AND some form of "alternative medicine" because, in my opinion, it spoils their credibility. I assume you grant me the freedom to choose myself whom I trust?

                              I think it's pretty obvious you have an internet understanding at best of the difference between European osteopaths and American DOs, so you really shouldn't even conclude that much at present. But yeah absolutely, free country, yours and mine!

                              K Offline
                              K Offline
                              Klaus
                              wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:39 last edited by
                              #219

                              @Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                              I think it's pretty obvious you have an internet understanding at best of the difference between European osteopaths and American DOs

                              Well, and you seem to have no understanding on why that difference doesn't matter at all for my point.

                              A 1 Reply Last reply 5 Oct 2020, 16:40
                              • D Doctor Phibes
                                5 Oct 2020, 16:36

                                @Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                                But yeah absolutely, free country, yours and mine!

                                It seems obvious that you have, at best, an internet understanding of freedom.

                                H Offline
                                H Offline
                                Horace
                                wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:39 last edited by
                                #220

                                @Doctor-Phibes said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                                @Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                                But yeah absolutely, free country, yours and mine!

                                It seems obvious that you have, at best, an internet understanding of freedom.

                                Good place to start. The stakes of free speech, the freedom upon which all other freedoms are based, are fought over in battlegrounds all across that landscape.

                                Education is extremely important.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • K Klaus
                                  5 Oct 2020, 16:39

                                  @Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                                  I think it's pretty obvious you have an internet understanding at best of the difference between European osteopaths and American DOs

                                  Well, and you seem to have no understanding on why that difference doesn't matter at all for my point.

                                  A Offline
                                  A Offline
                                  Aqua Letifer
                                  wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:40 last edited by
                                  #221

                                  @Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                                  @Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                                  I think it's pretty obvious you have an internet understanding at best of the difference between European osteopaths and American DOs

                                  Well, and you seem to have no understanding on why that difference doesn't matter at all for my point.

                                  Preach on, Quirt!

                                  (Sorry, Quirt.)

                                  Please love yourself.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • D Doctor Phibes
                                    5 Oct 2020, 16:36

                                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                                    But yeah absolutely, free country, yours and mine!

                                    It seems obvious that you have, at best, an internet understanding of freedom.

                                    A Offline
                                    A Offline
                                    Aqua Letifer
                                    wrote on 5 Oct 2020, 16:41 last edited by
                                    #222

                                    @Doctor-Phibes said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                                    But yeah absolutely, free country, yours and mine!

                                    It seems obvious that you have, at best, an internet understanding of freedom.

                                    Sir Tim Berners-Lee would be happy to hear that.

                                    Please love yourself.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • AxtremusA Away
                                      AxtremusA Away
                                      Axtremus
                                      wrote on 6 Oct 2020, 05:48 last edited by
                                      #223

                                      Congratulations to Trump for being discharged from the hospital.

                                      Link to video

                                      Hope he and the people who work near him to all remain in good health.

                                      For anyone looking for a keepsake to mark this momentous occasion in our nation's history, consider the "Trump Defeats COVID" commemorative coins that are now available for pre-order:

                                      https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/product-p/trump-defeats-covid.htm

                                      K 1 Reply Last reply 6 Oct 2020, 07:00
                                      • AxtremusA Axtremus
                                        6 Oct 2020, 05:48

                                        Congratulations to Trump for being discharged from the hospital.

                                        Link to video

                                        Hope he and the people who work near him to all remain in good health.

                                        For anyone looking for a keepsake to mark this momentous occasion in our nation's history, consider the "Trump Defeats COVID" commemorative coins that are now available for pre-order:

                                        https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/product-p/trump-defeats-covid.htm

                                        K Offline
                                        K Offline
                                        Klaus
                                        wrote on 6 Oct 2020, 07:00 last edited by
                                        #224

                                        @Axtremus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                                        For anyone looking for a keepsake to mark this momentous occasion in our nation's history, consider the "Trump Defeats COVID" commemorative coins that are now available for pre-order:

                                        Is this real or some kind of joke?

                                        G 1 Reply Last reply 6 Oct 2020, 11:40
                                        • K Klaus
                                          6 Oct 2020, 07:00

                                          @Axtremus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                                          For anyone looking for a keepsake to mark this momentous occasion in our nation's history, consider the "Trump Defeats COVID" commemorative coins that are now available for pre-order:

                                          Is this real or some kind of joke?

                                          G Offline
                                          G Offline
                                          George K
                                          wrote on 6 Oct 2020, 11:40 last edited by
                                          #225

                                          @Klaus said in Trump to quarantine awaiting Covid test:

                                          Is this real or some kind of joke?

                                          It's true.

                                          Jolly said he wants two.

                                          (BTW, this is not an official US Gov thing, just some "entrepreneurs".)

                                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                          K 1 Reply Last reply 6 Oct 2020, 15:00
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