The Grassley Report
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wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 21:10 last edited by
I haven't been following this closely. What did Hunter do wrong (outside of earning money from a Ukrainian/Russian business)?
$1M a month for an advisor sounds ridiculous to the lay person - as someone in the professional services industry, I can tell you the amount of money doesn't make me blink.
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wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 21:14 last edited by
"Vice President Mike Pence's son was given $3.5 million by the wife of the mayor of Moscow."
How does that sit with you?
Does that make you blink?
Would you ask any questions about what qualifies Pence's son for this?"Vice President Mike Pence's son was awarded multiple contracts with companies based in China."
How does that sit with you?
Does that make you blink?
Would you ask any questions about what qualifies Pence's son for this? -
wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 21:16 last edited by Horace
@xenon , can you explain a case in point(s) for the sorts of advisers who earn 1m per month? I mean with Hunter, it is clear the money is for the promise of high profile political influence. What would the money be for in your experience?
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wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 21:17 last edited by
Sure, a million a month is chump change.
But a million a month for nothing is the stuff that blinks are made of.
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@xenon , can you explain a case in point(s) for the sorts of advisers who earn 1m per month? I mean with Hunter, it is clear the money is for the promise of high profile political influence. What would the money be for in your experience?
wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 22:08 last edited by xenon@Horace said in The Grassley Report:
@xenon , can you explain a case in point(s) for the sorts of advisers who earn 1m per month? I mean with Hunter, it is clear the money is for the promise of high profile political influence. What would the money be for in your experience?
In management consulting - a couple of fresh outta school analysts, a couple of newish MBAs + a manager that's been doing it for 3+ with a fractional allocation of a partner is in that neighborhood.
Almost every single corporation in America buys teams (usually multiple) like that. Elite lawyers are in the same range.
My understanding with these foreign firms is that they want to show recognizable American advisors to lend an air of respectability and professionalism to their operations. Again - that feels about as valuable (or in the same ballpark) as getting important legal or business advice.
Paying hundreds of millions of dollars a year for advisors (of all different types) is the norm for Fortune 100 companies.
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wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 22:16 last edited by
Well, I've watched the company I work for throw money at high tech consultancy firms to develop products that we don't have the horses in the building to develop. The qualifier that it is for a team puts a different spin on it.
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wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 22:21 last edited by
It's been interesting to watch the ability level of the consultancy teams we throw money at, for the lack of the ability in the building. Generally the consultancy firm has one or two legit smart folk and a bunch of rando mediocrities. The building, i.e. my company, is about the same but a way higher denominator of mediocrities.
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wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 22:26 last edited by
It's interesting that in 2009 Hunter said he was leaving lobbying to prevent reputational conflicts with his father as VP. Then a few years later he ends up making money in the country his father is working closely with.
Must be his management expertise.
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"Vice President Mike Pence's son was given $3.5 million by the wife of the mayor of Moscow."
How does that sit with you?
Does that make you blink?
Would you ask any questions about what qualifies Pence's son for this?"Vice President Mike Pence's son was awarded multiple contracts with companies based in China."
How does that sit with you?
Does that make you blink?
Would you ask any questions about what qualifies Pence's son for this?wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 22:29 last edited by@George-K said in The Grassley Report:
"Vice President Mike Pence's son was given $3.5 million by the wife of the mayor of Moscow."
How does that sit with you?
Does that make you blink?
Would you ask any questions about what qualifies Pence's son for this?"Vice President Mike Pence's son was awarded multiple contracts with companies based in China."
How does that sit with you?
Does that make you blink?
Would you ask any questions about what qualifies Pence's son for this?So, if Pence's son got millions, and Hunter Biden got 10s of millions, who is more corrupt?
That's like the old joke of "if I pay you a million, would you sleep with me" and the punch line, "so we know you're not moral, it's all in negotiating a price." Or, something like that.How about Pence step down because he is so moral, and Trump could pick a black female VP?
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@Horace said in The Grassley Report:
@xenon , can you explain a case in point(s) for the sorts of advisers who earn 1m per month? I mean with Hunter, it is clear the money is for the promise of high profile political influence. What would the money be for in your experience?
In management consulting - a couple of fresh outta school analysts, a couple of newish MBAs + a manager that's been doing it for 3+ with a fractional allocation of a partner is in that neighborhood.
Almost every single corporation in America buys teams (usually multiple) like that. Elite lawyers are in the same range.
My understanding with these foreign firms is that they want to show recognizable American advisors to lend an air of respectability and professionalism to their operations. Again - that feels about as valuable (or in the same ballpark) as getting important legal or business advice.
Paying hundreds of millions of dollars a year for advisors (of all different types) is the norm for Fortune 100 companies.
wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 22:50 last edited by@xenon said in The Grassley Report:
@Horace said in The Grassley Report:
Paying hundreds of millions of dollars a year for advisors (of all different types) is the norm for Fortune 100 companies.
I worked with several Fortune 100 companies. I worked for a Fortune 1 company for a number of years.
I remember being and hiring consultants.
I don't remember us paying or being paid hundreds of millions, or even $3.5 million, for nothing. Usually there was something expected in return for the money.
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@xenon said in The Grassley Report:
@Horace said in The Grassley Report:
Paying hundreds of millions of dollars a year for advisors (of all different types) is the norm for Fortune 100 companies.
I worked with several Fortune 100 companies. I worked for a Fortune 1 company for a number of years.
I remember being and hiring consultants.
I don't remember us paying or being paid hundreds of millions, or even $3.5 million, for nothing. Usually there was something expected in return for the money.
wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 22:55 last edited by@Copper said in The Grassley Report:
I don't remember us paying or being paid hundreds of millions, or even $3.5 million
You guys had the wrong fathers.
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@taiwan_girl said in The Grassley Report:
@Jolly Yes. Having experience in third world countries, if you are doing business in certain Countries, almost guaranteed you will be partnering with less desirable people
Or you won’t be in that country.
It's one thing to get involved with that as a private businessman
The vice-president is a different story
wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 23:13 last edited by@Copper said in The Grassley Report:
@taiwan_girl said in The Grassley Report:
@Jolly Yes. Having experience in third world countries, if you are doing business in certain Countries, almost guaranteed you will be partnering with less desirable people
Or you won’t be in that country.
It's one thing to get involved with that as a private businessman
The vice-president is a different story
But okay for the president?
Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump are the two top officials in the Trump organization. Do you not think that when they do business in foreign countries now, this does not matter that their father is President of the US?
(Before anybody say anything, i do not think that the Trump Organization should have shut down just because President Trump became President. And I also know that the Trump organization had business in many countries before President Trump became president.
I actually dont know much about Vice President Biden son and his business.
I think it is pretty obvious that connections "open doors" that would not be open instead, regardless if it is Vice President Biden son, President Trump children, the son/daughter of a famous musician/movie actor, etc.)
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wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 23:14 last edited by
How many countries have given them $3.5 million for nothing?
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wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 23:20 last edited by
@Copper said in The Grassley Report:
How many countries have given them $3.5 million for nothing?
It is not for nothing. They are expecting some sort of influence.
Maybe their company (Company X) wants to do a project in Country A. They are competing against Company Y. Company Y comes in cheaper, but the project rules are are changed such that only Company X can win.
Why would they do that? Because the person high up in teh company is the son of the Vice President or President. I think it is nave to think it is not going on.
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wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 23:24 last edited by Mik
TG, do you think that if the Trump boys were out selling influence internationally that would not have been screamed from the rafters already? It's really not believable and you have no evidence, just unfounded assumption.
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@xenon said in The Grassley Report:
@Horace said in The Grassley Report:
Paying hundreds of millions of dollars a year for advisors (of all different types) is the norm for Fortune 100 companies.
I worked with several Fortune 100 companies. I worked for a Fortune 1 company for a number of years.
I remember being and hiring consultants.
I don't remember us paying or being paid hundreds of millions, or even $3.5 million, for nothing. Usually there was something expected in return for the money.
wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 23:27 last edited by xenon@Copper said in The Grassley Report:
@xenon said in The Grassley Report:
@Horace said in The Grassley Report:
Paying hundreds of millions of dollars a year for advisors (of all different types) is the norm for Fortune 100 companies.
I worked with several Fortune 100 companies. I worked for a Fortune 1 company for a number of years.
I remember being and hiring consultants.
I don't remember us paying or being paid hundreds of millions, or even $3.5 million, for nothing. Usually there was something expected in return for the money.
Say you're a portfolio manager looking for foreign energy companies to invest in - Perhaps Russian/Ukranian ones.
All else being equal - one had a board full of Ukranian natives and the other having some well known ex-pats on it. Which one would you choose?
Mabye Hunter was corrupt. I have no idea. But getting paid $1M a month to be a board member of a foreign company is by no means a criminal indictment.
Famous board members get paid craploads for essentially not delivering anything all the time.
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wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 23:32 last edited by
Hunter Biden is not famous for anything but his father. That dog won't hunt.
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wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 23:40 last edited by xenon
@Mik said in The Grassley Report:
Hunter Biden is not famous for anything but his father. That dog won't hunt.
So you're basically saying that there's no value of having someone on your board who is the son of the VPOTUS, went to elite schools himself and is obviously politically connected (even though no one would really know how connected).
You're saying there's no value to bringing a person on your Board like that if you're trying to get foreign investors? (Or other types of foreign deals)
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wrote on 23 Sept 2020, 23:45 last edited by
Sure. It's called selling access, which is the whole point of the discussion.
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TG, do you think that if the Trump boys were out selling influence internationally that would not have been screamed from the rafters already? It's really not believable and you have no evidence, just unfounded assumption.
wrote on 24 Sept 2020, 01:33 last edited by@Mik said in The Grassley Report:
TG, do you think that if the Trump boys were out selling influence internationally that would not have been screamed from the rafters already? It's really not believable and you have no evidence, just unfounded assumption.
I agree with you MIkaloh. They are not out there selling it, but would you agree that because of who they are, they are already one or two steps in front of other companies?
I am sure that Vice President Biden son did not say - "Psst, hire me (or my company) and I will say good things about you to my father" But, it is (to me) it is pretty obvious that there is some exception on the part of the customer.
I am sure that President Trump sons did not say - "Psst, chose our company, and we will say good things about you to my father".
I think I have mentioned previously, but I have been involved (in a minor way) on some large infrastructure projects and have spent many hours looking at and reviewing bid documents. Most government departments are required to be "transparent" in their selection process.
But, it is not that difficult to set the language in a bid document so that the advantage goes to one company or organization. So, if someone later comes back and says - "Why did you choose Vice President Biden company or President Trump company?", they can point to their spreadsheet and show that it was all "above the water".
But in reality, it would have been very difficult for Biden/Trump company to lose. Certain standards had to be met, and oh my gosh, the Biden/Trump company was the only one that could meet it.
All is I am saying is that it is nave to think that personal connections does not influence the final decision. Can I prove that? No. And I am sure that if I had docuemtation for Biden/Trump companies and their bidding on various projects, I would not find anything. That does not mean it is not there. And maybe it is all perfectly legal.
Just look at the forum thread that @George-K started about Supreme Court clerks. Somewhat similar. Law companies are not hiring these people because they are so so much better than other lawyers. Part of teh reason is that they have "connections".