Speaking of national humiliation
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Do you think Trump actually respects Putin? I don’t. He just has no intention of aggravating him while in negotiations.
wrote on 18 Mar 2025, 23:59 last edited by@Mik said in Speaking of national humiliation:
Do you think Trump actually respects Putin? I don’t. He just has no intention of aggravating him while in negotiations.
He’s shown nothing but respect over the past decade. Dunno if he sees himself in a constant negotiation with him.
He just seems to admire powerful men, and doesn’t care much for the restrain of laws.
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Do you think Trump actually respects Putin? I don’t. He just has no intention of aggravating him while in negotiations.
wrote on 19 Mar 2025, 00:35 last edited by@Mik said in Speaking of national humiliation:
Do you think Trump actually respects Putin? I don’t. He just has no intention of aggravating him while in negotiations.
Not respect as you and I think of the word but rather recognition or acknowledgement of powerful status. Trump only hopes Putin reciprocates a similar acknowledgement towards him. Trump also knows he cannot browbeat Putin into submitting to his will then expect to receive anything of value in return.
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wrote on 19 Mar 2025, 01:15 last edited by
If one can disentangle "respect" from "admire", I would assume most reasonable people would respect Putin.
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If one can disentangle "respect" from "admire", I would assume most reasonable people would respect Putin.
wrote on 19 Mar 2025, 01:23 last edited by@Horace said in Speaking of national humiliation:
If one can disentangle "respect" from "admire", I would assume most reasonable people would respect Putin.
Fear and despise, maybe. Respect? Not really.
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If one can disentangle "respect" from "admire", I would assume most reasonable people would respect Putin.
wrote on 19 Mar 2025, 01:34 last edited by@Horace said in Speaking of national humiliation:
If one can disentangle "respect" from "admire", I would assume most reasonable people would respect Putin.
This captures Kanye’s curious embrace of Hitler. He originally was appealing to “respect” but himself ended up in a place of “admire”
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@Horace said in Speaking of national humiliation:
If one can disentangle "respect" from "admire", I would assume most reasonable people would respect Putin.
This captures Kanye’s curious embrace of Hitler. He originally was appealing to “respect” but himself ended up in a place of “admire”
wrote on 19 Mar 2025, 02:05 last edited by@xenon said in Speaking of national humiliation:
@Horace said in Speaking of national humiliation:
If one can disentangle "respect" from "admire", I would assume most reasonable people would respect Putin.
This captures Kanye’s curious embrace of Hitler. He originally was appealing to “respect” but himself ended up in a place of “admire”
Well, I don't vouch for Kanye's attitudes towards Hitler, and thanks for giving me the opportunity to clear that up. I know a lot of people think Kanye speaks for me, but he doesn't. But obviously Putin is a formidable human being, this is not really a point of contention. I guess one could just assume he lucked into his position and lacks any respectable talents, or maybe just refuse to use positive-sounding words when describing a bad guy. One thing is certain, it's always super interesting the words people choose, or refuse to choose. Fascinating stuff.
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wrote on 19 Mar 2025, 03:15 last edited by xenon
You took it personally. I was just commenting that Kanye moved from respect over into admiration. I was more agreeing with you that those two things get entangled.
I don’t think anyone would deny that Putin has talents. It’s just that overall assessment of him by most people that live in a free country would be negative.
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@xenon said in Speaking of national humiliation:
@Horace said in Speaking of national humiliation:
If one can disentangle "respect" from "admire", I would assume most reasonable people would respect Putin.
This captures Kanye’s curious embrace of Hitler. He originally was appealing to “respect” but himself ended up in a place of “admire”
Well, I don't vouch for Kanye's attitudes towards Hitler, and thanks for giving me the opportunity to clear that up. I know a lot of people think Kanye speaks for me, but he doesn't. But obviously Putin is a formidable human being, this is not really a point of contention. I guess one could just assume he lucked into his position and lacks any respectable talents, or maybe just refuse to use positive-sounding words when describing a bad guy. One thing is certain, it's always super interesting the words people choose, or refuse to choose. Fascinating stuff.
wrote on 19 Mar 2025, 10:11 last edited by Doctor Phibes@Horace said in Speaking of national humiliation:
One thing is certain, it's always super interesting the words people choose, or refuse to choose. Fascinating stuff.
Respect: noun:
a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
"the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor"verb
admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
"she was respected by everyone she worked with"*How does that fit in with our feelings about V. Putin?
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@Mik said in Speaking of national humiliation:
Do you think Trump actually respects Putin? I don’t. He just has no intention of aggravating him while in negotiations.
Not respect as you and I think of the word but rather recognition or acknowledgement of powerful status. Trump only hopes Putin reciprocates a similar acknowledgement towards him. Trump also knows he cannot browbeat Putin into submitting to his will then expect to receive anything of value in return.
wrote on 19 Mar 2025, 10:43 last edited by@Renauda said in Speaking of national humiliation:
@Mik said in Speaking of national humiliation:
Do you think Trump actually respects Putin? I don’t. He just has no intention of aggravating him while in negotiations.
Not respect as you and I think of the word but rather recognition or acknowledgement of powerful status. Trump only hopes Putin reciprocates a similar acknowledgement towards him. Trump also knows he cannot browbeat Putin into submitting to his will then expect to receive anything of value in return.
Exactly.
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@Horace said in Speaking of national humiliation:
One thing is certain, it's always super interesting the words people choose, or refuse to choose. Fascinating stuff.
Respect: noun:
a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
"the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor"verb
admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
"she was respected by everyone she worked with"*How does that fit in with our feelings about V. Putin?
wrote on 19 Mar 2025, 14:06 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Speaking of national humiliation:
@Horace said in Speaking of national humiliation:
One thing is certain, it's always super interesting the words people choose, or refuse to choose. Fascinating stuff.
Respect: noun:
a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
"the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor"verb
admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
"she was respected by everyone she worked with"*How does that fit in with our feelings about V. Putin?
That's one dictionary's take, I guess, but it's simply wrong relative to common use. (Maybe you copied a single definition of several). One can respect a thing without deep admiration of that thing.
Anyway, I think it's tedious to litigate word meanings, the ground truth here is that obviously there is an unwillingness to use positive-sounding words to describe a person we hate. This is very normal and very human, and it's also normal and human to deny that this plays a part in word choice. Tedious, but welcome to TNCR, or welcome to public discourse, where to one degree or another, we all create our own realities with the rhetoric we share.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Speaking of national humiliation:
@Horace said in Speaking of national humiliation:
One thing is certain, it's always super interesting the words people choose, or refuse to choose. Fascinating stuff.
Respect: noun:
a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
"the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor"verb
admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
"she was respected by everyone she worked with"*How does that fit in with our feelings about V. Putin?
That's one dictionary's take, I guess, but it's simply wrong relative to common use. (Maybe you copied a single definition of several). One can respect a thing without deep admiration of that thing.
Anyway, I think it's tedious to litigate word meanings, the ground truth here is that obviously there is an unwillingness to use positive-sounding words to describe a person we hate. This is very normal and very human, and it's also normal and human to deny that this plays a part in word choice. Tedious, but welcome to TNCR, or welcome to public discourse, where to one degree or another, we all create our own realities with the rhetoric we share.
wrote on 19 Mar 2025, 16:50 last edited by@Horace said in Speaking of national humiliation:
Anyway, I think it's tedious to litigate word meanings, the ground truth here is that obviously there is an unwillingness to use positive-sounding words to describe a person we hate. This is very normal and very human, and it's also normal and human to deny that this plays a part in word choice. Tedious, but welcome to TNCR, or welcome to public discourse, where to one degree or another, we all create our own realities with the rhetoric we share.
OK, to take the cliched extreme case, if somebody said 'I think most reasonable people would respect Hitler', how does that sound?
I just think 'respect' is the incorrect word to use here. Common usage in my experience at least is that 'respect' implies some positive opinions about the person. What is it we respect about Putin?
And I didn't cherry-pick the dictionary definition. I hit Google, and pulled the answers that came back.
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wrote on 19 Mar 2025, 20:40 last edited by
