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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Beyond the antivaxx stuff MAHA is either banal or fake

Beyond the antivaxx stuff MAHA is either banal or fake

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  • jon-nycJ Offline
    jon-nycJ Offline
    jon-nyc
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Excerpts from Matt Yglesia’s substack.

    Kennedy, in a way that I find completely perverse, has received credit that he doesn’t even remotely deserve for making the banal observation that lifestyle determinants of health are probably a bigger deal than official medical care.

    This has been retconned by people experiencing a weird conjunction of credulousness and paranoia as some kind of deep, dark, forbidden truth about America that “they” don’t want you to know.

    In truth, the Clinton administration promulgated “a comprehensive plan to promote physical activity and decrease obesity in the nation's young people.” George W. Bush announced a “HealthierUS initiative designed to help Americans, especially children, live longer, better, and healthier lives.” Michelle Obama had “Let’s Move” and an initiative to improve childhood nutrition. The Biden administration just last year promulgated new school nutrition guidelines offering less sugar and more “protein-rich breakfast foods such as yogurt, tofu, eggs, nuts, and seeds.”

    The idea that, conceptually, it would be good for Americans in general and children in particular to exercise more and eat less junk food is genuinely the least controversial idea in American politics. It’s driving me insane to see banal, vaguely lib-coded platitudes about health care and public health now be coded as daring red pill insights that we need to give credit to a crank for articulating.

    This is especially true because the whole difficulty here isn’t that it’s brave to say that people should eat healthier and work out more. It’s hard to actually get people to do that. The same country that doesn’t want to make Covid vaccines mandatory also isn’t going to want to ban packaged snacks and sodas. You could obtain giant public health gains by raising the alcohol tax, but people don’t want to pay higher taxes.

    The only actual intersection between any of RFK’s stated views and anything acceptable to a business-friendly anti-regulatory Republican Party is discouraging vaccination. Of course, like any human being, Kennedy has some ideas that are correct. But those ideas are either banal or unrelated to his actual authority in office. What he is doing as HHS chief is sowing doubt about longstanding vaccination programs.

    Only non-witches get due process.

    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
    1 Reply Last reply
    • HoraceH Offline
      HoraceH Offline
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      It's simply not true that the connection between eating habits and T2 diabetes has been hammered home and is a banal fixture of popular culture messaging.

      Matt Yglesias, or "Fat Matt" as he is known to his friends, should be ashamed of making that point.

      Education is extremely important.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
        #3

        Maybe not so specifically to ‘type 2 diabetes’ but we knew.

        Just like when we were growing up we knew smoking was bad for you even if we had not specifically heard of emphysema or Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease.

        Only non-witches get due process.

        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
        1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Thinking through his presidential examples. Guys my age might remember the ‘President’s Physical Fitness Test’. I looked it up, it’s from the Nixon administration. And it was inspired by an Eisenhower initiative.

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            The President’s Council on Physical Fitness and Sports was established in 1956 by President Dwight D. Eisenhower in response to concerns about the declining physical fitness of American youth. The catalyst for this initiative was a 1953 study comparing the fitness levels of American and European children, which found that over 50% of American kids failed basic physical fitness tests, compared to only 8% of European children. This alarmed U.S. officials, who saw physical fitness as crucial to national security, especially in the Cold War era.

            Early Years (1950s–1960s)
            • Eisenhower formed the President’s Council on Youth Fitness, with Vice President Richard Nixon as its first chair.
            • In 1960, President John F. Kennedy rebranded it as the President’s Council on Physical Fitness and aggressively promoted fitness through public campaigns. He even published an article, “The Soft American,” in Sports Illustrated, urging Americans to embrace physical activity.
            • Schools were encouraged to implement new physical education programs, and in 1966, the President’s Physical Fitness Award was introduced to recognize students who excelled in fitness tests.

            Expansion and Peak Popularity (1970s–1980s)
            • President Lyndon B. Johnson added “Sports” to the Council’s name in 1966, making it the President’s Council on Physical Fitness and Sports to emphasize both general fitness and organized sports.
            • Under President Richard Nixon, the Council developed the President’s Physical Fitness Test, a standardized set of exercises in schools that included:
            • Pull-ups (or flexed-arm hang for girls)
            • Sit-ups
            • Shuttle run
            • 50-yard dash
            • One-mile run
            • Sit-and-reach flexibility test
            • In the 1980s, President Ronald Reagan promoted fitness through celebrity endorsements, and Arnold Schwarzenegger became the Chairman of the Council in 1990 under President George H.W. Bush, boosting its visibility.

            Decline and Shift (1990s–2013)
            • Over time, concerns grew that the test discouraged less athletic kids rather than promoting lifelong fitness habits.
            • In 2013, the Presidential Youth Fitness Program replaced the old fitness test, focusing on health-based fitness standards rather than competitive benchmarks.

            The program’s legacy remains significant, as it helped shape physical education in American schools for decades. Let me know if you’d like more details on any era!

            Only non-witches get due process.

            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              I remember literally being graded on the various aspects of the physical fitness test. It sucked running the mile in Florida in street clothes.

              Only non-witches get due process.

              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
              1 Reply Last reply
              • HoraceH Offline
                HoraceH Offline
                Horace
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                The most amazing thing is that we knew as scientific fact that smoking was bad for you long, long before it reached its current low levels. One is tempted to think cultural messaging and social factors that go along in that stew, played a larger role than the academic truths that pre-existed them. But I know that the smart people don't actually think that cultural messaging or cultural forces in general are important, as compared to academic truths.

                Education is extremely important.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • HoraceH Offline
                  HoraceH Offline
                  Horace
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  But yes, the T2 diabetes thing can be hammered home, they can talk about blindness, amputations, comas, all that, they can talk about how it's epidemic just as much as being gross and fat (most often messaged in simply aesthetic terms). These things can make a dent in the culture, and "fat Matt" (a name I never call him myself, as I think it is mean) will have to find a way to accept that without complaining too much.

                  Education is extremely important.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                    #9

                    The cultural messaging re cigarettes was going full blast already in the 70s. At some point smoking became uncool among higher social status people. While it would be idiotic to say health concerns weren’t a cause of that, it wasn’t so simple as getting the message out on, say, MTV instead of PBS Newshour.

                    Honestly being in shape and eating well long ago completely swept through higher status US culture. Like smoking, it lags in middle America and among the poor.

                    Only non-witches get due process.

                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • JollyJ Offline
                      JollyJ Offline
                      Jolly
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Tedious.

                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Steven Pinker on MAHA:

                        RFKJr's MAHA grafts mindless left-wing environmentalism & granola quackery onto mindless right-wing institutional vandalism.

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nycJ Offline
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Only non-witches get due process.

                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • HoraceH Offline
                            HoraceH Offline
                            Horace
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            That is a good thing, regardless of the findings.

                            Education is extremely important.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • CopperC Offline
                              CopperC Offline
                              Copper
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Let's just do this one final study and then never talk about it again.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                Doctor Phibes
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                If the findings are the same as all of the other studies, is it really going to change anybody's mind?

                                I was only joking

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • JollyJ Offline
                                  JollyJ Offline
                                  Jolly
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Depends on who's lying to whom.

                                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                  Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • JollyJ Jolly

                                    Depends on who's lying to whom.

                                    Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                    Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                    Doctor Phibes
                                    wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                                    #17

                                    @Jolly said in Beyond the antivaxx stuff MAHA is either banal or fake:

                                    Depends on who's lying to whom.

                                    A simple 'no' would probably have been easier.

                                    I was only joking

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • JollyJ Offline
                                      JollyJ Offline
                                      Jolly
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Trust, once broken, is hard to regain.

                                      It's why cheating kills marriages.

                                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                      AxtremusA Doctor PhibesD 2 Replies Last reply
                                      • JollyJ Jolly

                                        Trust, once broken, is hard to regain.

                                        It's why cheating kills marriages.

                                        AxtremusA Offline
                                        AxtremusA Offline
                                        Axtremus
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        @Jolly said in Beyond the antivaxx stuff MAHA is either banal or fake:

                                        Trust, once broken, is hard to regain.

                                        What if it's faith rather than trust that is operating here?

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • JollyJ Jolly

                                          Trust, once broken, is hard to regain.

                                          It's why cheating kills marriages.

                                          Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                          Doctor PhibesD Offline
                                          Doctor Phibes
                                          wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                                          #20

                                          @Jolly said in Beyond the antivaxx stuff MAHA is either banal or fake:

                                          Trust, once broken, is hard to regain.

                                          It's why cheating kills marriages.

                                          The bogus link between autism and MMR vaccines goes back decades. The lying and fraud started in the 90's, and it wasn't perpetrated by those who support vaccination.

                                          I was only joking

                                          CopperC 1 Reply Last reply
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