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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Outlasting Trump's Attacks?

Outlasting Trump's Attacks?

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  • JollyJ Offline
    JollyJ Offline
    Jolly
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    I don't think Trump is attacking the premise, he's not in favor of the mandates and subsidies.

    From PC Mag:

    https://www.pcmag.com/opinions/why-im-convinced-evs-will-outlast-trumps-attacks

    Why I'm Convinced EVs Will Outlast Trump's Attacks
    In my years of reporting, I've driven over a dozen EVs. They've taken me on hiking trips, helped me run errands, and spun me around while doing donuts on a racetrack (I'm driving in the picture below). In all scenarios, it's clear that they offer distinct advantages over gas-powered cars.

    Some of the fastest racecars in the world are EVs, which is why the McLaren Racing CEO called battery technology the "biggest innovation" for F1 in the coming years. Racing around a track in an EV is terrifying, but I enjoy the acceleration in more mundane ways. It gives me a boost of confidence when merging on the highway, makes me quick off the line at a traffic light, and takes the edge off the experience of doing a 1,000-point turn to fit into a tight parking spot.

    When Ford took me out off-roading in an F-150 Lightning, the guide asked me to roll down the windows in the middle of the woods. "Do you hear that?" he said. There was nothing to hear, which was the point. The gigantic car was so powerful, yet so silent. We crashed over boulders and splashed through mud puddles while actually enjoying the peacefulness of being outside.

    On a daily basis, the quiet cabin means it's easier to hear backseat passengers (school kids also told me they feel more at ease in quiet electric buses). Plus, there's no billowing exhaust to inhale in the garage and damage your lungs. With no engine and fewer components, you're not making as many trips to the mechanic and saving time on gas station stops if you charge at home.

    Pumping the Brakes on the EV Revolution
    President Trump's all-out assault on EV adoption doesn't change any of this. The cat's out of the bag for EV drivers, which is why they rarely go back to gas cars, Electrek reports. But most people have never driven an EV; they only made up 10.6% of new car sales in the third quarter of 2024, the Alliance for Automotive Innovation reports.

    "We just have to get people into EVs and then they'll understand," is a common sentiment tossed around at auto shows and in my private conversations with car companies. Ford CEO Jim Farley penned a passionate LinkedIn post about why driving an EV convinced him it's the future, but it doesn't quite hit the same until you've experienced it yourself.

    Although Trump froze federal funds for charging efforts in an attempt to "terminate the green new deal," you don't need to be an environmentalist to want an EV. But if you are, it's a thrill to drive a car that runs better and doesn't emit along the way. (Transportation is the US' largest source of greenhouse gas emissions, with passenger vehicles the being the biggest culprit, the EPA says.) Mercedes-Benz is even developing charging networks that use 100% renewable energy. True "green luxury,".

    EVs Aren't Right for Everyone, Yet
    I'm not suggesting everyone should buy an EV. They are still expensive; most cost between $40,000 to $60,000, though there are a handful of great options around $40,000, like the Kia Niro and Tesla Model 3. The auto industry has also completely ignored the challenges of those living in apartments when it comes to charging. No landlord wants to pay to install a charging station, and there is a dearth of innovative solutions to get around that. As a general principle, I do not recommend that anyone buy an EV if they are going to rely on public charging.

    Then there's the range issue. Although electrons carried drivers more miles than ever in 2024, with the median range hitting a record 283 miles, it's still not enough. Road trips are far more peaceful and reliable in a gas-powered car, which has plentiful fuel-up options that don't take 30 minutes of waiting. Though battery technology research firms are racing to find powerful new chemistries, they're still a few years out. Hyundai expects them to hit the market near 2030, with more range, faster charging, and lower prices.

    So, not everyone will enjoy driving an EV, and that's okay. But even with these issues, many communities and states already have high adoption levels. In California, EVs make up 27% of new car sales, Colorado's at 25.5%, Washington state is at 24.6%, and Washington, D.C. is at 20.4%. Across the US, the share of gas-powered cars is dropping, while EVs and hybrids make up the difference.

    Hybrids Are Playing the Long Game
    Many automakers, including Ford and Hyundai, are downgrading their EV ambitions. This is tragic for environmentalists, but it might be a necessary step to foster a genuine interest in battery technology that transcends politics. Consumers will start to see images of batteries on their dash screen, learn about things like regenerative braking, and start to like faster acceleration and paying less for gas. As the years roll by with no fires in their garage, concerns about batteries in cars will fade away.

    Ram and Hyundai are also exploring a new hybrid technology called "extended range." They power the vehicle with a battery, giving it smooth handling and quick acceleration, but a fuel tank recharges it. So drivers can get the feeling of driving an EV without any charging anxiety. Car companies will continue to bring innovative tech like this to market if consumers demand it.

    As optimistic as I'm attempting to be, it's still a great shame that Trump is moving to stop a once-in-a-generation wave of progress in automotive technology. His wet-blanket approach will likely delay the inevitable transition away from clunky, inefficient gas-powered cars. But no one should look to him as an automotive technology visionary, and no one should let him keep them from enjoying the distinct pleasure of EV driving.

    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

    taiwan_girlT 1 Reply Last reply
    • JollyJ Jolly

      I don't think Trump is attacking the premise, he's not in favor of the mandates and subsidies.

      From PC Mag:

      https://www.pcmag.com/opinions/why-im-convinced-evs-will-outlast-trumps-attacks

      Why I'm Convinced EVs Will Outlast Trump's Attacks
      In my years of reporting, I've driven over a dozen EVs. They've taken me on hiking trips, helped me run errands, and spun me around while doing donuts on a racetrack (I'm driving in the picture below). In all scenarios, it's clear that they offer distinct advantages over gas-powered cars.

      Some of the fastest racecars in the world are EVs, which is why the McLaren Racing CEO called battery technology the "biggest innovation" for F1 in the coming years. Racing around a track in an EV is terrifying, but I enjoy the acceleration in more mundane ways. It gives me a boost of confidence when merging on the highway, makes me quick off the line at a traffic light, and takes the edge off the experience of doing a 1,000-point turn to fit into a tight parking spot.

      When Ford took me out off-roading in an F-150 Lightning, the guide asked me to roll down the windows in the middle of the woods. "Do you hear that?" he said. There was nothing to hear, which was the point. The gigantic car was so powerful, yet so silent. We crashed over boulders and splashed through mud puddles while actually enjoying the peacefulness of being outside.

      On a daily basis, the quiet cabin means it's easier to hear backseat passengers (school kids also told me they feel more at ease in quiet electric buses). Plus, there's no billowing exhaust to inhale in the garage and damage your lungs. With no engine and fewer components, you're not making as many trips to the mechanic and saving time on gas station stops if you charge at home.

      Pumping the Brakes on the EV Revolution
      President Trump's all-out assault on EV adoption doesn't change any of this. The cat's out of the bag for EV drivers, which is why they rarely go back to gas cars, Electrek reports. But most people have never driven an EV; they only made up 10.6% of new car sales in the third quarter of 2024, the Alliance for Automotive Innovation reports.

      "We just have to get people into EVs and then they'll understand," is a common sentiment tossed around at auto shows and in my private conversations with car companies. Ford CEO Jim Farley penned a passionate LinkedIn post about why driving an EV convinced him it's the future, but it doesn't quite hit the same until you've experienced it yourself.

      Although Trump froze federal funds for charging efforts in an attempt to "terminate the green new deal," you don't need to be an environmentalist to want an EV. But if you are, it's a thrill to drive a car that runs better and doesn't emit along the way. (Transportation is the US' largest source of greenhouse gas emissions, with passenger vehicles the being the biggest culprit, the EPA says.) Mercedes-Benz is even developing charging networks that use 100% renewable energy. True "green luxury,".

      EVs Aren't Right for Everyone, Yet
      I'm not suggesting everyone should buy an EV. They are still expensive; most cost between $40,000 to $60,000, though there are a handful of great options around $40,000, like the Kia Niro and Tesla Model 3. The auto industry has also completely ignored the challenges of those living in apartments when it comes to charging. No landlord wants to pay to install a charging station, and there is a dearth of innovative solutions to get around that. As a general principle, I do not recommend that anyone buy an EV if they are going to rely on public charging.

      Then there's the range issue. Although electrons carried drivers more miles than ever in 2024, with the median range hitting a record 283 miles, it's still not enough. Road trips are far more peaceful and reliable in a gas-powered car, which has plentiful fuel-up options that don't take 30 minutes of waiting. Though battery technology research firms are racing to find powerful new chemistries, they're still a few years out. Hyundai expects them to hit the market near 2030, with more range, faster charging, and lower prices.

      So, not everyone will enjoy driving an EV, and that's okay. But even with these issues, many communities and states already have high adoption levels. In California, EVs make up 27% of new car sales, Colorado's at 25.5%, Washington state is at 24.6%, and Washington, D.C. is at 20.4%. Across the US, the share of gas-powered cars is dropping, while EVs and hybrids make up the difference.

      Hybrids Are Playing the Long Game
      Many automakers, including Ford and Hyundai, are downgrading their EV ambitions. This is tragic for environmentalists, but it might be a necessary step to foster a genuine interest in battery technology that transcends politics. Consumers will start to see images of batteries on their dash screen, learn about things like regenerative braking, and start to like faster acceleration and paying less for gas. As the years roll by with no fires in their garage, concerns about batteries in cars will fade away.

      Ram and Hyundai are also exploring a new hybrid technology called "extended range." They power the vehicle with a battery, giving it smooth handling and quick acceleration, but a fuel tank recharges it. So drivers can get the feeling of driving an EV without any charging anxiety. Car companies will continue to bring innovative tech like this to market if consumers demand it.

      As optimistic as I'm attempting to be, it's still a great shame that Trump is moving to stop a once-in-a-generation wave of progress in automotive technology. His wet-blanket approach will likely delay the inevitable transition away from clunky, inefficient gas-powered cars. But no one should look to him as an automotive technology visionary, and no one should let him keep them from enjoying the distinct pleasure of EV driving.

      taiwan_girlT Offline
      taiwan_girlT Offline
      taiwan_girl
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      @Jolly said in Outlasting Trump's Attacks?:

      I don't think Trump is attacking the premise, he's not in favor of the mandates and subsidies.

      There are a ton of subsidies out there for various industries.

      Why focus on EV's? My guess is that this was something promoted by President Biden and Democrats, and as is (unfortunately) usual in politics, if one side is FOR something, the other side feels a need to be AGAINST it.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        It does show that Elon’s influence only goes so far.

        Only non-witches get due process.

        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
        1 Reply Last reply
        • JollyJ Offline
          JollyJ Offline
          Jolly
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          If Elon can sell a Tesla 3 for 30k, he'll make money.

          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

          1 Reply Last reply
          • CopperC Offline
            CopperC Offline
            Copper
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            I doubt if very many people, including Mr. Trump, are really against EVs.

            They are against cars with limited range that are inconvenient and very, very expensive.

            If the EV outperforms, it will rule.

            If it doesn't, it is a bit of democrat religion that should just die.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • JollyJ Offline
              JollyJ Offline
              Jolly
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              For short commutes and city driving, I can see where they make sense...For the right price.

              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

              1 Reply Last reply
              • JollyJ Offline
                JollyJ Offline
                Jolly
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                We really need to bring back some common sense.

                We need to quit subsidizing EVs. We need to remove the complicated regen cycles,DEF and electronics off of farm tractors. We need to take a very hard look at what we are doing that drives manufacturers to build bad IC engines. We need to fund further research into hydrogen and natural gas powered cars and trucks.

                We need to run more underground utilities, so storms don't take down city grids (and EV charging stations).

                We need to look harder at public seizure of delapidated, delinquent properties and work with urban planners for pedestrian and bicycle friendly communities and a return to the old model of a business on the first floor and living quarters on the second floor.

                There are ways to save energy without shoving people into things they don't want.

                “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                • JollyJ Jolly

                  We really need to bring back some common sense.

                  We need to quit subsidizing EVs. We need to remove the complicated regen cycles,DEF and electronics off of farm tractors. We need to take a very hard look at what we are doing that drives manufacturers to build bad IC engines. We need to fund further research into hydrogen and natural gas powered cars and trucks.

                  We need to run more underground utilities, so storms don't take down city grids (and EV charging stations).

                  We need to look harder at public seizure of delapidated, delinquent properties and work with urban planners for pedestrian and bicycle friendly communities and a return to the old model of a business on the first floor and living quarters on the second floor.

                  There are ways to save energy without shoving people into things they don't want.

                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                  Doctor Phibes
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @Jolly said in Outlasting Trump's Attacks?:

                  We really need to bring back some common sense.

                  We need to quit subsidizing EVs. We need to remove the complicated regen cycles,DEF and electronics off of farm tractors. We need to take a very hard look at what we are doing that drives manufacturers to build bad IC engines. We need to fund further research into hydrogen and natural gas powered cars and trucks.

                  We need to run more underground utilities, so storms don't take down city grids (and EV charging stations).

                  We need to look harder at public seizure of delapidated, delinquent properties and work with urban planners for pedestrian and bicycle friendly communities and a return to the old model of a business on the first floor and living quarters on the second floor.

                  There are ways to save energy without shoving people into things they don't want.

                  Maybe forcing people to drive to the office five days a week isn't always really necessary, either.

                  I was only joking

                  JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                  • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                    @Jolly said in Outlasting Trump's Attacks?:

                    We really need to bring back some common sense.

                    We need to quit subsidizing EVs. We need to remove the complicated regen cycles,DEF and electronics off of farm tractors. We need to take a very hard look at what we are doing that drives manufacturers to build bad IC engines. We need to fund further research into hydrogen and natural gas powered cars and trucks.

                    We need to run more underground utilities, so storms don't take down city grids (and EV charging stations).

                    We need to look harder at public seizure of delapidated, delinquent properties and work with urban planners for pedestrian and bicycle friendly communities and a return to the old model of a business on the first floor and living quarters on the second floor.

                    There are ways to save energy without shoving people into things they don't want.

                    Maybe forcing people to drive to the office five days a week isn't always really necessary, either.

                    JollyJ Offline
                    JollyJ Offline
                    Jolly
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @Doctor-Phibes said in Outlasting Trump's Attacks?:

                    @Jolly said in Outlasting Trump's Attacks?:

                    We really need to bring back some common sense.

                    We need to quit subsidizing EVs. We need to remove the complicated regen cycles,DEF and electronics off of farm tractors. We need to take a very hard look at what we are doing that drives manufacturers to build bad IC engines. We need to fund further research into hydrogen and natural gas powered cars and trucks.

                    We need to run more underground utilities, so storms don't take down city grids (and EV charging stations).

                    We need to look harder at public seizure of delapidated, delinquent properties and work with urban planners for pedestrian and bicycle friendly communities and a return to the old model of a business on the first floor and living quarters on the second floor.

                    There are ways to save energy without shoving people into things they don't want.

                    Maybe forcing people to drive to the office five days a week isn't always really necessary, either.

                    not if you're trying to make them quit.

                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                    Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                    • JollyJ Jolly

                      @Doctor-Phibes said in Outlasting Trump's Attacks?:

                      @Jolly said in Outlasting Trump's Attacks?:

                      We really need to bring back some common sense.

                      We need to quit subsidizing EVs. We need to remove the complicated regen cycles,DEF and electronics off of farm tractors. We need to take a very hard look at what we are doing that drives manufacturers to build bad IC engines. We need to fund further research into hydrogen and natural gas powered cars and trucks.

                      We need to run more underground utilities, so storms don't take down city grids (and EV charging stations).

                      We need to look harder at public seizure of delapidated, delinquent properties and work with urban planners for pedestrian and bicycle friendly communities and a return to the old model of a business on the first floor and living quarters on the second floor.

                      There are ways to save energy without shoving people into things they don't want.

                      Maybe forcing people to drive to the office five days a week isn't always really necessary, either.

                      not if you're trying to make them quit.

                      Doctor PhibesD Offline
                      Doctor PhibesD Offline
                      Doctor Phibes
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @Jolly said in Outlasting Trump's Attacks?:

                      not if you're trying to make them quit.

                      I'm talking about me, not the government 😆

                      I was only joking

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