Piano upgrade time
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I am beginning my second and final piano search in my life.
I want to find my "forever" piano.
Retirement is around the corner and one of my immediate indulgences will be to upgrade to higher level of piano. I was struck recently, as if by lightning one night in a dream I think, and my future was laid out before me. I am destined to retire to the island of Sardinia where the sea is as clear and blue as you can find. I will live in a house with that sea in my backyard looking out the living room bay windows as I sit and play my new piano. I will probably end up purchasing on mainland Italy, Rome or Naples, to have less cost and trouble of shipping such a beast from California to Italy.
The only requirement of the new piano is that it be of the 7' variety, preferrably new,(think Steinway B, yeah it's only 6'11" but I'm sure Steinway did that on purpose to tell buyers they don't have to make them 7' like everyone else).
I think most can agree that 7' is the length that grands really shine, especially with bass. I do wish I had more.
My go no higher price I have set to not a dime over 100K. I hope I don't have to spend that much but hey man, this is it! I don't have that many years left and retirement isn't the time to make the best deal and then wish for the rest of my life that I'd have spent more on a better one that hurt my wallet more.
So I should be able to find something in the end that will make me happy as Mozart. Can you imagine the wonder and absolute shock if he was able to sit at one of today's pianofortes? He would piss his pants.
My 2005 Petrof III Majestic has been a fine piano for the last 20 years with nary a complaint except for "i wish I had more bass"! It was recently regulated and voiced and plays better today than 20 years back if you can dig it. Renner action Abel hammers, and a danged good price in 2005 I paid for this very nice East European beauty. I didn't even have to leave my area to find it. A local dealer had just started up with Petrof.
So far, I have sat at local stores to try a Yamaha S6X and a Steinway B. The Yamaha sounded like a European piano now and the sustain and strong bass grabbed me immediately, but I was a bit frustrated with the mid treble area as it felt muted somehow and forced me to hit the keys in that area harder than I would like. I walked over to the CFX (concert grand) sitting right next to it and it too had a similar issue but not as bad. Maybe it's just a voicing needed. I dunno.
So I went to the next store and sat at their Steinway B, where I almost did a Mozart. It was beautiful! I don't have much yet to compare it to but if that was the piano I ended up with then I would consider myself happy. I can see why it's the gold standard in this size piano. The strings just want to resonate forever, the bass is as strong as you can ask of it, the piano is powerful, and yet it was so easy to play delicately and bring an even pianissimo level of playing.
But Steinways are Steinways, I'm not sure I will find a brand new B today for less than 100K. And then there's the matter of msrps all over the map depending where you look. Blue Book of Pianos website says 96K for the B while another website PianoPricePoint says 135K! The sticker in the store was a bit higher than that! Thus I am not yet sure if Steinway is an option. Not 1 dime over remember!
I feel obligated to visit other piano stores, whether in So Cal or up in the Bay Area. I am located in the middle between the two. I need to sample all these other brands I have only heard talked about or heard through pc speakers watching youtube videos.
There is this one dealer I need to get down to soon, Kim's Piano down in So Cal. They are an authorized dealer for practically every brand I dearly want to try. Estonia, Shiguru, Mason, August Forster, Seiler, C Bechstein, and Bluthner! All in one store! And a 7 footer of each on the floor.
I have been out of the loop somewhat these last 20 years, after purchasing my Petrof, and am now reeducating myself on brands and costs. I realize half the brands I just listed will definitely not come in under 100K so I don't want to close the door on the possibility of a good used piano just yet.
And that brings me to my first question regarding some used pianos out there. I remember Baldwin being talked of fondly here and over at Pianoworld and though I am probably not interested in a new Chinese Baldwin grand, I have heard and read nothing but greatness when one speaks of the SF10's of yore. Built like a tank they were, solid good tone on par with any Steinway. America's finest grand ever made said by many. The thing is, I see a handful of them currently for sale on Pianomart ranging from the 1980s and 90's and all between 10K and 20K. That does not seem right after hearing the great things about these models. Does anyone here know why they can be had for so little, compared to similar Steinways or other European names that command much more money? Are these Baldwins going to be such a good bang for my buck that I won't even have to pony up anything for my forever piano after selling the Petrof? Sounds too good to be true. I wish whatever it was that knocked me over the head and told me to take a plot out in Sardinia, would have also foretold the piano I would need to acquire. I tend to think in the end it might be an Estonia.
One thing that hasn't changed in the last 20 years is the good words of praise for their grands for less than its Euro cousins. I plan on doing a piano crawl this spring down in So Cal and if anyone is in the vicinity and would like to tag along, I would enjoy having a shotgun with a second set of ears. Too much rock and roll has impaired my right ear some, what? huh? oh, ok. well stop mumbling! sheesh. -
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I was in a very similar situation a few years ago, with similar size and budget considerations.
I played every grand piano I could get my hands on. My final short list was the Bösendorfer 214VC, Steinway B, Fazioli F212, Shigeru Kawai SK6, and Yamaha CF6. There are things I liked best about every one of them, but to me the Yamaha was the best of the bunch and I ended up buying it. Second best was the Fazioli. The Shigeru Kawai is the best if you consider "bang for the buck".
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@Mik In all my editing of this post, i accidentally deleted that notion Mik. Yes, in the end, I will most likely purchase the piano in mainland Italy , Rome or Naples. Plenty of vendors over there and I have a local FB friend who is in the biz who wants to help me find it. Especially since I'm not shopping for a cheap one. O sole mio if I could talk a Fazioli down to reasonable range! Of all my internet listening, as unreliable as it is, Fazioli's and Bechsteins sound best to me. Of course they are the 2 most exprensive brands for a reason I suppose.
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@Axtremus yes, I am hoping pianos are more negotiable in an area that has much competition. But like I said in response to Mik's question, I think it prudent in the end to purchase in mainland Italy. and avoid transportation costs for 1000 pound pianos
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@Klaus Very Interesting! Yes, the Yamaha has gone through some changes in the last 20 years for sure. No longer the bright boy I was used to. Not to say a bright piano doesn't have its place. There is a reason people like Elton John, Chick Correa, John Legend, Alicia Keys, etc. play them in concert. They cut through the mix better than pianos made for classical music. But again, the Yamaha sounded like a different brand on the 1 I tried. The seller had made the bold statement that he was at the last NAMM and there was a S6X sitting next to a Steinway D, and he said the Yamaha blew the D out of the water. Of course the guy is a guitar player so I was a bit wary of his statement. It was soon proven to me at least that very day that the S6X is not the B killer he proclaimed. Yes, I know each piano brings unique details of voicing/reg/placment/etc. I will be giving Yamaha another chance as I crawl around, since they are ubiquitous in America. So Klaus, what did the CF Yamaha give you that the SX's didn't, besides the higher price?
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@Klaus said in Piano upgrade time:
I was in a very similar situation a few years ago, with similar size and budget considerations.
I played every grand piano I could get my hands on. My final short list was the Bösendorfer 214VC, Steinway B, Fazioli F212, Shigeru Kawai SK6, and Yamaha CF6. There are things I liked best about every one of them, but to me the Yamaha was the best of the bunch and I ended up buying it. Second best was the Fazioli. The Shigeru Kawai is the best if you consider "bang for the buck".
Even more interesting that the Yamaha won you over the top brands in the world! I need to try the CF's I guess. It's just that the guy was stark raving gaga over these SX's. Not quite sure of the main differences between the two lines , I heard same parts for the most part, but maybe the CF gets built by the veterans and gets a little more attention to detail?? A Bosie and Fazioli lose to a Yamaha. Who woulda figured? No testdrives on any Estonias in your search?
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Oh, and what happened with Petrof over these last 20 years? They are now Tier 1 priced pianos! What happened?
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I played a SX6 but I thought there was a huge difference between the SX6 and the CF6.
Estonias are not well represented in the market over here. I also tried Grotrian, August Förster, SteingrÀber, C. Bechstein and every other decent brand I could get my hands on.
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The S6X is âmehâ. You need to find an S7X to try⊠And a CF6. And a Bosie 214VC. Youâre not going to find a new B for under $140K but might find a 5 year old piano.
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I envy you the journey. Please do keep us along for the journey. Your Steinway B - would most likely be a Hamburg instrument - so a bit different than the US version. I'm not as big a fan of new Bechsteins or Bluthners. While I appreciate Faziolis, I've not fallen in love with any.
I have a B that was a custom rebuild that I got to check in on while it was being rebuilt. I also keepa digital with Pianoteq - and have access to a number of digital instruments. I've mostly been using the Bosendorfer 280VC as of late - works well with the music I'm working on.
I don't know that I'll ever be in the market for another acoustic instrument though I came close to looking at a Baldwin SD10 that I could have had for an incredible price last year. It was a rebuilt instrument - and supposedly in great shape - and less than $5k. I didn't want to try it - lest I think wrong thoughts. One of my favorite piano moments was playing an SD10 a few decades ago. It was delightful.
As for your journey - that $100k limit may be the challenge - but I hope you find your dream piano.
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I bought a Sauter Delta (6âsomething) ~2006. The Sauter Omega is the size up. I really liked mine but I was no pianist, just a grade 8/9 RCM student. In 2016 I consigned it, shipped it & it sold in a month to a jazz performer?/producer? I lost $0 on the sale of that piano. Norbert of PW used to tell me the 7â Omega Sauters were best pianos he sold. He really liked the sound of them, everything about them. I did too ⊠he drove me to a few client houses in Vancouver with Omegas to try out and to listen to. My piano tech told me that my Delta was 1 of 2 of his favourite pianos (the other being a German Steinway). I remember Mr Sauter came to my home to and played mine once. It sounded beautiful hearing someone play my piano in my own home. I donât know what Sauters cost now.
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You can find lots of MSRPs here. I have no idea if they are accurate.
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@kluurs said in Piano upgrade time:
I envy you the journey. Please do keep us along for the journey. Your Steinway B - would most likely be a Hamburg instrument - so a bit different than the US version. I'm not as big a fan of new Bechsteins or Bluthners. While I appreciate Faziolis, I've not fallen in love with any.
I have a B that was a custom rebuild that I got to check in on while it was being rebuilt. I also keepa digital with Pianoteq - and have access to a number of digital instruments. I've mostly been using the Bosendorfer 280VC as of late - works well with the music I'm working on.
I don't know that I'll ever be in the market for another acoustic instrument though I came close to looking at a Baldwin SD10 that I could have had for an incredible price last year. It was a rebuilt instrument - and supposedly in great shape - and less than $5k. I didn't want to try it - lest I think wrong thoughts. One of my favorite piano moments was playing an SD10 a few decades ago. It was delightful.
As for your journey - that $100k limit may be the challenge - but I hope you find your dream piano.
A fully rebuilt SD10 for $5K? You couldnât replace the strings for $5K
