Using the Military for Mass Deportations
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Using the Military for Mass Deportations:
If this was an easy problem to solve, it would have been solved by one side or the other by now. I don't think it's going to be, whatever Trump claims.
Like cutting the deficit, this is a lot simpler when it's somebody else's job.
I think people know that, but the journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step.
@Jolly said in Using the Military for Mass Deportations:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Using the Military for Mass Deportations:
If this was an easy problem to solve, it would have been solved by one side or the other by now. I don't think it's going to be, whatever Trump claims.
Like cutting the deficit, this is a lot simpler when it's somebody else's job.
I think people know that, but the journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step.
There you go. If you do nothing you get nothing but worse.
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Well, we may find out. I would still estimate that more than 50% of people who hand pick crops in the field are illegal.
I would also estimate that greater than 50% of the typical Chinese buffet restaurant staff, which you see in pretty much every US town, is staffed by illegals. I also estimate that a lot of the waitstaff and servers do not work for any salary but just make their money in tips. The owner has a house nearby with multiple bedrooms where the staff stays. Usually 12 hour shifts, with one day off per week.
@taiwan_girl said in Using the Military for Mass Deportations:
Well, we may find out. I would still estimate that more than 50% of people who hand pick crops in the field are illegal.
I would also estimate that greater than 50% of the typical Chinese buffet restaurant staff, which you see in pretty much every US town, is staffed by illegals. I also estimate that a lot of the waitstaff and servers do not work for any salary but just make their money in tips. The owner has a house nearby with multiple bedrooms where the staff stays. Usually 12 hour shifts, with one day off per week.
And you don’t see the very real problem with that?
The Brad
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And again, the official population of the United States in 2019 was 328M. There were plenty of low income agricultural workers and restaurant workers keeping prices and wages low. Today, there are 343M. At least 10M of the 15M increase are undocumented migrants that came to the US since 2019. If you deported every single one of those illegal aliens, you still have all of the low cost labor pool that you had in 2019. There would be minimal cost increases due to labor shortages.
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@taiwan_girl said in Using the Military for Mass Deportations:
Well, we may find out. I would still estimate that more than 50% of people who hand pick crops in the field are illegal.
I would also estimate that greater than 50% of the typical Chinese buffet restaurant staff, which you see in pretty much every US town, is staffed by illegals. I also estimate that a lot of the waitstaff and servers do not work for any salary but just make their money in tips. The owner has a house nearby with multiple bedrooms where the staff stays. Usually 12 hour shifts, with one day off per week.
And you don’t see the very real problem with that?
@LuFins-Dad said in Using the Military for Mass Deportations:
And you don’t see the very real problem with that?
I see it as a very big problem.
People that I have talked to in that situation dont like it, but it is better than from where they are coming which really speaks about how bad things are in their home location.
Most/all people who are here in the US illegally did not come to the US because they were leaving a better situation behind. It is tough for them - generally dont speak the language, always living on the edge, big limitations on what you can do, leaving close relatives behind, etc.
Even saying all that, I dont disagree with the deportation of illegal immigrants.
But i think that there will be consequences that maybe not everybody expects.
We need to fix the immigration system, and while probably not very possible, the best way to fix is to fix it at the source. Decreasing the illegal immigration is just a "band aid" but does not solve the problem.
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As I have stated before, I am a fan of LEGAL immigration, not illegal.
But, if these deportations go through, there will be some (unintended) consequences
increase in grocery prices, especially in vegetables, fruits, etc.
increase in dining out prices
chance of house construction and repairs going up
etc.@taiwan_girl said in Using the Military for Mass Deportations:
increase in grocery prices, especially in vegetables, fruits, etc.
Further followup
A paradox has settled across California’s velvet green fields and orchards. California farmers, who are some of the most ardent supporters of Donald Trump, would seem to be on a collision course with one of the president-elect’s most important campaign promises.
Trump has pledged to carry out mass deportations of undocumented immigrants across the country, including, he has said in recent days, rounding up people and putting them in newly built detention camps.
If any such effort penetrated California’s heartland — where half the fruits and vegetables consumed in the U.S. are grown — it almost surely would decimate the workforce that farmers rely on to plant and harvest their crops. At least half of the state’s 162,000 farmworkers are undocumented, according to estimates from the federal Department of Labor
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Again, the number of deportations they have stated they are planning for are those that entered illegally since January of 2021. There will be as many migrants working the fields as there was in 2019, and that was more than sufficient then, and our population hasn’t grown that much since (except for the +10,000,000 undocumented migrants that entered since then, of course).
Beyond that, should there be a need for more workers, there are plans in place for an expansion of the H-2A program. And ultimately, any wage increases that will affect the cost of food will be mitigated by the better economic conditions for the entire country as we continue to win.
The Brad
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In the worst case scenario, we’ll just put all of the media and political prisoners to work as free labor…
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In the worst case scenario, we’ll just put all of the media and political prisoners to work as free labor…
@LuFins-Dad said in Using the Military for Mass Deportations:
In the worst case scenario, we’ll just put all of the media and political prisoners to work as free labor…
The Innocence Project will look for internees in the concentration camps who never criticized Trump. I hope they find them, and I hope those innocents can be returned to free society with the rest of us.
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I think we agree prices will go up regardless
Illegals deported = less workers, higher prices
replaced with legal workers = higher labor costs, higher prices -
Again, the number of deportations they have stated they are planning for are those that entered illegally since January of 2021. There will be as many migrants working the fields as there was in 2019, and that was more than sufficient then, and our population hasn’t grown that much since (except for the +10,000,000 undocumented migrants that entered since then, of course).
Beyond that, should there be a need for more workers, there are plans in place for an expansion of the H-2A program. And ultimately, any wage increases that will affect the cost of food will be mitigated by the better economic conditions for the entire country as we continue to win.
@LuFins-Dad said in Using the Military for Mass Deportations:
Again, the number of deportations they have stated they are planning for are those that entered illegally since January of 2021. There will be as many migrants working the fields as there was in 2019, and that was more than sufficient then, and our population hasn’t grown that much since (except for the +10,000,000 undocumented migrants that entered since then, of course).
That argument assumes no migrants who illegally entered by 2019 has left since 2021.
