Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT
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Her talking points were mostly bait to piss Trump off ("your rallies are boring"). It worked, but the debate just became fodder for each respective base. Nothing was learned, very few minds were probably changed. I think this will be a non-event in the overall race.
wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 16:17 last edited by@xenon said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Nothing was learned,
Not quite true. I learned that Trump flip-flopped yet again on the 6-week abortion ban in FL.
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Re the calls, of course I can’t prove what calls his office did t receive. But by all accounts the cat-eating meme only started in the last 48 hours. The parsimonious explanation is that he wanted to boost it and needed a pretext to bring it up other than ‘racist trolls on Gab invented this story. run with it’.
wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 16:43 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Re the calls, of course I can’t prove what calls his office did t receive. But by all accounts the cat-eating meme only started in the last 48 hours. The parsimonious explanation is that he wanted to boost it and needed a pretext to bring it up other than ‘racist trolls on Gab invented this story. run with it’.
The public accusations go back to June. At least regarding the ducks and geese in the park.
At any rate, the importance of the rumors is not really whether pets are being barbecues, it’s what is driving it. People in small towns that are seeing their neighborhoods and towns being overwhelmed with undocumented aliens. Major cities are being overwhelmed by proportionally much smaller numbers. These small cities and towns in blue collar areas are being devastated. I’ve mentioned Charleroi, a town of 4200 that now has an additional 2000 Haitians in it. That entire town voted for Trump in 2020 55%-45%. Right now it’s looking like 90-10. And while it’s a small town in Western PA, it’s surrounded by larger towns that are well aware of what’s happening in Charleroi and avoiding it like the plague, and blaming the immigration policies. There’s 100000 residents of the Mon Valley… Then there’s the communities surrounding the Valley. If 40K votes went the other way in 2020, Trump wins PA. He likely picks up 20K of those votes in the Mon Valley. York, PA is having the same problem, as is Raubville. I’m afraid that our Border Czar will have some difficulties in Pennsylvania.
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Re the calls, of course I can’t prove what calls his office did t receive. But by all accounts the cat-eating meme only started in the last 48 hours. The parsimonious explanation is that he wanted to boost it and needed a pretext to bring it up other than ‘racist trolls on Gab invented this story. run with it’.
wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 16:48 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Re the calls, of course I can’t prove what calls his office did t receive. But by all accounts the cat-eating meme only started in the last 48 hours. The parsimonious explanation is that he wanted to boost it and needed a pretext to bring it up other than ‘racist trolls on Gab invented this story. run with it’.
Your own account admits that if a hoaxer or set of hoaxers called his office, it would give Vance's story more credibility than you're willing to give it. That's a lot of political power in the hands of a potential hoaxer, to expect them to forego it just because, what, they're above that sort of behavior? Your assuredness that Vance is lying, is unearned.
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@jon-nyc said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Re the calls, of course I can’t prove what calls his office did t receive. But by all accounts the cat-eating meme only started in the last 48 hours. The parsimonious explanation is that he wanted to boost it and needed a pretext to bring it up other than ‘racist trolls on Gab invented this story. run with it’.
The public accusations go back to June. At least regarding the ducks and geese in the park.
At any rate, the importance of the rumors is not really whether pets are being barbecues, it’s what is driving it. People in small towns that are seeing their neighborhoods and towns being overwhelmed with undocumented aliens. Major cities are being overwhelmed by proportionally much smaller numbers. These small cities and towns in blue collar areas are being devastated. I’ve mentioned Charleroi, a town of 4200 that now has an additional 2000 Haitians in it. That entire town voted for Trump in 2020 55%-45%. Right now it’s looking like 90-10. And while it’s a small town in Western PA, it’s surrounded by larger towns that are well aware of what’s happening in Charleroi and avoiding it like the plague, and blaming the immigration policies. There’s 100000 residents of the Mon Valley… Then there’s the communities surrounding the Valley. If 40K votes went the other way in 2020, Trump wins PA. He likely picks up 20K of those votes in the Mon Valley. York, PA is having the same problem, as is Raubville. I’m afraid that our Border Czar will have some difficulties in Pennsylvania.
wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 16:52 last edited by@LuFins-Dad said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
@jon-nyc said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Re the calls, of course I can’t prove what calls his office did t receive. But by all accounts the cat-eating meme only started in the last 48 hours. The parsimonious explanation is that he wanted to boost it and needed a pretext to bring it up other than ‘racist trolls on Gab invented this story. run with it’.
The public accusations go back to June. At least regarding the ducks and geese in the park.
At any rate, the importance of the rumors is not really whether pets are being barbecues, it’s what is driving it. People in small towns that are seeing their neighborhoods and towns being overwhelmed with undocumented aliens. Major cities are being overwhelmed by proportionally much smaller numbers. These small cities and towns in blue collar areas are being devastated. I’ve mentioned Charleroi, a town of 4200 that now has an additional 2000 Haitians in it. That entire town voted for Trump in 2020 55%-45%. Right now it’s looking like 90-10. And while it’s a small town in Western PA, it’s surrounded by larger towns that are well aware of what’s happening in Charleroi and avoiding it like the plague, and blaming the immigration policies. There’s 100000 residents of the Mon Valley… Then there’s the communities surrounding the Valley. If 40K votes went the other way in 2020, Trump wins PA. He likely picks up 20K of those votes in the Mon Valley. York, PA is having the same problem, as is Raubville. I’m afraid that our Border Czar will have some difficulties in Pennsylvania.
There is quite a wikipedia article on the pet eating hoax already.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield,_Ohio_cat-eating_hoax
At the time of the 2020 census, Springfield, Ohio, had a population of 58,662. Between 15,000–20,000 Haitian migrants came to Springfield since then.[15] While the migrants have had a positive economic impact on the city, the rapid population expansion strained public resources.[16][12]
I wonder how they establish that the migrants have had a positive economic impact? The cites are paywalled.
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@jon-nyc said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Re the calls, of course I can’t prove what calls his office did t receive. But by all accounts the cat-eating meme only started in the last 48 hours. The parsimonious explanation is that he wanted to boost it and needed a pretext to bring it up other than ‘racist trolls on Gab invented this story. run with it’.
The public accusations go back to June. At least regarding the ducks and geese in the park.
At any rate, the importance of the rumors is not really whether pets are being barbecues, it’s what is driving it. People in small towns that are seeing their neighborhoods and towns being overwhelmed with undocumented aliens. Major cities are being overwhelmed by proportionally much smaller numbers. These small cities and towns in blue collar areas are being devastated. I’ve mentioned Charleroi, a town of 4200 that now has an additional 2000 Haitians in it. That entire town voted for Trump in 2020 55%-45%. Right now it’s looking like 90-10. And while it’s a small town in Western PA, it’s surrounded by larger towns that are well aware of what’s happening in Charleroi and avoiding it like the plague, and blaming the immigration policies. There’s 100000 residents of the Mon Valley… Then there’s the communities surrounding the Valley. If 40K votes went the other way in 2020, Trump wins PA. He likely picks up 20K of those votes in the Mon Valley. York, PA is having the same problem, as is Raubville. I’m afraid that our Border Czar will have some difficulties in Pennsylvania.
wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 17:05 last edited by@LuFins-Dad said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
The public accusations go back to June. At least regarding the ducks and geese in the park.
I’m talking pets, which are almost certainly false. ‘Eating wild ducks’ doesn’t sound quite as scary. I’ll bet some of us have done so.
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wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 17:07 last edited by
Again, the real story is what is driving the accusations in these towns, and dismissing it as racism or xenophobia will ultimately bite you in the ass
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@jon-nyc said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Re the calls, of course I can’t prove what calls his office did t receive. But by all accounts the cat-eating meme only started in the last 48 hours. The parsimonious explanation is that he wanted to boost it and needed a pretext to bring it up other than ‘racist trolls on Gab invented this story. run with it’.
Your own account admits that if a hoaxer or set of hoaxers called his office, it would give Vance's story more credibility than you're willing to give it. That's a lot of political power in the hands of a potential hoaxer, to expect them to forego it just because, what, they're above that sort of behavior? Your assuredness that Vance is lying, is unearned.
wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 17:11 last edited by@Horace said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Your own account admits that if a hoaxer or set of hoaxers called his office, it would give Vance's story more credibility than you're willing to give it. That's a lot of political power in the hands of a potential hoaxer, to expect them to forego it just because, what, they're above that sort of behavior?
If they want him to boost their meme just make it useful to him politically and get it in front of him online. Seems a lot more efficient than calling an intern in Columbus to tell him your cat is missing and hoping the story makes it to the boss.
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@Horace said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Your own account admits that if a hoaxer or set of hoaxers called his office, it would give Vance's story more credibility than you're willing to give it. That's a lot of political power in the hands of a potential hoaxer, to expect them to forego it just because, what, they're above that sort of behavior?
If they want him to boost their meme just make it useful to him politically and get it in front of him online. Seems a lot more efficient than calling an intern in Columbus to tell him your cat is missing and hoping the story makes it to the boss.
wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 17:27 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
@Horace said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Your own account admits that if a hoaxer or set of hoaxers called his office, it would give Vance's story more credibility than you're willing to give it. That's a lot of political power in the hands of a potential hoaxer, to expect them to forego it just because, what, they're above that sort of behavior?
If they want him to boost their meme just make it useful to him politically and get it in front of him online. Seems a lot more efficient than calling an intern in Columbus to tell him your cat is missing and hoping the story makes it to the boss.
Maybe the parsimonious explanation for your assuredness that no calls were made, is that it makes Vance a liar, and you like believing that about Vance. I mean just maybe. Since we're talking parsimony.
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wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 17:48 last edited by
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Her talking points were mostly bait to piss Trump off ("your rallies are boring"). It worked, but the debate just became fodder for each respective base. Nothing was learned, very few minds were probably changed. I think this will be a non-event in the overall race.
wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 18:23 last edited by@xenon said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Her talking points were mostly bait to piss Trump off ("your rallies are boring"). It worked, but the debate just became fodder for each respective base. Nothing was learned, very few minds were probably changed. I think this will be a non-event in the overall race.
As it starts to shake out, I think you're right. I think you might see a small bump for her, but I don't think it lasts. Back to the status quo.
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Again, the real story is what is driving the accusations in these towns, and dismissing it as racism or xenophobia will ultimately bite you in the ass
wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 18:24 last edited by@LuFins-Dad said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
Again, the real story is what is driving the accusations in these towns, and dismissing it as racism or xenophobia will ultimately bite you in the ass
Bingo.
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wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 19:23 last edited by
The Paper of Record speaks...
U.S. — Following last night's debate in which David Muir and Linsey Davis employed an impressive strategy against former President Donald Trump, news broke that Democrats have decided to replace Kamala Harris on the ballot with the ABC moderators.
Discussions began almost immediately after the debate to replace the Harris-Walz ticket with Muir-Davis based entirely on the moderators' ability to articulate Harris' positions and attack Trump better than she ever has.
"They really got her strongest points across," said one top Democratic Party official. "We loved the way they fought back against any facts Trump was presenting. They've mastered the art of twisting reality and playing fast and loose with truth, which is exactly what we look for in our candidates. It was staring us right in the face. We talked it over and figured, why not just go with them instead?'"
Muir and Davis were surprised but humbled by the news. "It will be an honor to serve," Muir said in a brief statement. "We have always done our very best to advance the cause of the Democratic Party, and now that we're being called upon to run for election, we would be shirking our responsibility as journalists not to answer the call. As members of the press, we always know what's best for all Americans. We can't wait to get into the White House."
At publishing time, Muir and Davis released a statement that they were looking forward to their next debate against Trump, which they would moderate themselves.
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wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 19:27 last edited byThis post is deleted!
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wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 19:56 last edited by
Brilliant.
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wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 20:22 last edited by
Speaking of brilliant, NR went back and pulled the questions asked of the candidates. It's illuminating...
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/trumps-biggest-problem-at-the-debate-was-trump/
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wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 20:25 last edited by Jolly 9 Nov 2024, 21:34
And ... Thought Megan Kelly had the best take ..No Republican should ever do a debate with ABC again. Ever.
She also thought the best debate would be pure adversarial. Let each candidate pick the moderator for the other candidate.
For example, the moderators last night might have been Sean Hannity and Rachal Maddow (edit. Spell check changed Maddow).
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And ... Thought Megan Kelly had the best take ..No Republican should ever do a debate with ABC again. Ever.
She also thought the best debate would be pure adversarial. Let each candidate pick the moderator for the other candidate.
For example, the moderators last night might have been Sean Hannity and Rachal Maddow (edit. Spell check changed Maddow).
wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 21:16 last edited by@Jolly said in Debate Tonight 9/10/24 9:00 PM EDT:
For example, the moderators last night might have been
Sean HannityAdolf Hitler andRachal MaddieMother Teresa. -
wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 21:38 last edited by Jolly 9 Nov 2024, 21:47
And speaking of eating Fluffy...
Politics is perception. Whether the rumors are true or not, people believe the rumors are true!
The people believe that because a city of 58,000 received 20,000 Haitians. It's a mess...You cannot dump that many people from a dissimilar culture into a community and expect any kind of assimilation.
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wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 21:50 last edited by
I lived in that town for several years and you are right.
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wrote on 11 Sept 2024, 22:10 last edited by