Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse

The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Unlicensed Surgeon

Unlicensed Surgeon

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
13 Posts 8 Posters 97 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

    What about the surgeon?

    George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #3

    @jon-nyc said in Unlicensed Surgeon:

    What about the surgeon?

    Just says "he no longer works at the hospital."

    I would've reported him to the licensing board.

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • MikM Offline
      MikM Offline
      Mik
      wrote on last edited by
      #4

      I know that health system pretty well. They are pretty loose, but that’s outrageous.

      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

      1 Reply Last reply
      • CopperC Offline
        CopperC Offline
        Copper
        wrote on last edited by
        #5

        With Doctor Jill Biden helping in the Oval Office this sort of thing won't happen.

        George KG 1 Reply Last reply
        • AxtremusA Offline
          AxtremusA Offline
          Axtremus
          wrote on last edited by
          #6

          Trying to manufacture a "right to work" test case?

          1 Reply Last reply
          • CopperC Copper

            With Doctor Jill Biden helping in the Oval Office this sort of thing won't happen.

            George KG Offline
            George KG Offline
            George K
            wrote on last edited by
            #7

            @Copper said in Unlicensed Surgeon:

            With Doctor Jill Biden helping in the Oval Office this sort of thing won't happen.

            Yeah, she'll be able to teach them a thing or three.

            "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

            The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • RainmanR Offline
              RainmanR Offline
              Rainman
              wrote on last edited by
              #8

              It just shows how easy it really is to do surgery. Anyone can do it.

              George KG 1 Reply Last reply
              • RainmanR Rainman

                It just shows how easy it really is to do surgery. Anyone can do it.

                George KG Offline
                George KG Offline
                George K
                wrote on last edited by
                #9

                @Rainman said in Unlicensed Surgeon:

                It just shows how easy it really is to do surgery. Anyone can do it.

                Well, at least the first step.

                "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • JollyJ Offline
                  JollyJ Offline
                  Jolly
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #10

                  Permissible for him to observe, with the permission of the patient and the attending surgeon. In writing.

                  From the far corner...

                  “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                  Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • George KG Offline
                    George KG Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #11

                    Escalation: https://www.wjhl.com/news/local/district-attorney-general-asks-board-of-medical-examiners-to-investigate-incident-that-led-to-hospital-ceo-resignation/

                    SULLIVAN COUNTY, Tenn. (WJHL) – District Attorney General Barry Staubus is calling for the Tennessee Board of Medical Examiners to investigate the incident at Bristol Regional Medical Center that led to its CEO resigning.

                    In a letter, Staubus has deferred to the Board of Medical Examiners “to investigate any alleged criminal violation of Title 63, Chapter 6 of the Tennessee Code by Greg Neal, former CEO of Bristol Regional Medical Center.”

                    On Wednesday afternoon, Ballad Health confirmed the physician involved in the incident was Dr. Nathan Smith. Smith was fired following the incident.

                    Staubus asked the board in the letter to inform his office should they find any violation of the law that warrants a review by a Sullivan County Grand Jury.

                    I doubt the surgeon was fired. Most surgeons are independent practitioners and don't work "for the hospital." However, the hospital certainly has the ability/right to suspend privileges while the matter is under investigation.

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #12

                      https://www.physiciansweekly.com/non-physician-hospital-ceo-cut-after-participating-in-surgery/

                      Last week on Twitter I asked this question:

                      alt text

                      The 130 (2.5%) of 5,213 respondents who said they would allow a CEO to make a skin incision highlight the unscientific nature of Twitter polls. Restricting the voting to surgeons only is not possible. Many people asked me why I asked the question because surely no surgeon would ever have allowed it. Here is why.

                      Greg Neal, former CEO of a Bristol, Tennessee hospital, was asked to resign after having been involved in a surgical procedure. He is not a licensed physician. A local newspaper published his statement about what happened. In part, it said: “Recently, at the invitation of a surgeon, I entered an operating room to observe a surgical case and to support our surgical team, as many health system and hospital CEOs do throughout the nation. As the case began, the surgeon asked if I would like to make the initial incision for this surgical procedure. I regret I did so.”

                      The incident was reported to the hospital’s compliance program. Neal apologized to the patient, the family, employees, and management of the hospital.

                      A subsequent article by a television station said the attorney general of the district in which this took place has asked the Tennessee Board of Medical Examiners to investigate the event for a possible “criminal violation of Title 63, Chapter 6 of the Tennessee Code.” The TV station also named the surgeon, Nathan Smith, and said he had been fired by the hospital.

                      Many questions arise.

                      What did Neal hope to learn by observing an operation? I can think of no reason for a hospital administrator to even be a spectator in the operating room. Contrary to what he said in his statement, it is not common for hospital CEOs to go to the operating room to observe a surgical case. The infection risk alone would not be worth it.

                      Since the patient apparently was not aware of the CEO’s presence, a HIPAA violation may have occurred. Back in the old days, it was common to have device salesman, pre-med students, and others to watch cases without the patients’ knowledge. Now many hospitals are requiring informed consent for anyone outside of the normal operating room complement to be present. Those hospitals that don’t require such consents probably should.

                      What was the CEO thinking when he accepted the surgeon’s offer to make the skin incision? Was he thrill-seeking? Perhaps an investigation will determine whether this was done on the spur of the moment or was it planned in advance?

                      Why would a surgeon allow a hospital administrator to make an incision on an unknowing patient? This was clearly unethical and probably illegal. In my 40+ years as a surgeon, I never heard of anything like this.

                      The scrub technician and circulating nurse must have assisted the CEO in donning a sterile gown and gloves. Did the CEO know anything about sterile technique? Why didn’t the OR personnel including the anesthesiologist question what was going on? I can’t think of a single operating room nurse I ever worked with who would have allowed this to happen. Was this the first time the CEO had ever been in an operating room? Was everyone intimidated by the presence of the CEO? Was the culture of the hospital not supportive of staff complaints about physician or administrator behavior? We know someone eventually called the hospital’s anonymous tip line, but why didn’t they feel empowered to say something in the moment?

                      Could the CEO be successfully sued for medical battery? A liability insurance website defines medical battery as “an intentional and wrongful physical contact with another person without that person’s consent that includes some injury or offensive touching.” Because the patient suffered no physical damage, I’m not sure a plaintiff’s attorney would take the case.

                      Whether the surgeon will be sanctioned by the Tennessee Board of Medical Examiners remains to be seen.

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • HoraceH Offline
                        HoraceH Offline
                        Horace
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #13

                        Wow that guy is really over thinking this. The surgeon wanted to have a giggly little moment with the CEO by letting him do a neat-o thing that he wasn't supposed to do. Does it need more explanation than that?

                        Education is extremely important.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        Reply
                        • Reply as topic
                        Log in to reply
                        • Oldest to Newest
                        • Newest to Oldest
                        • Most Votes


                        • Login

                        • Don't have an account? Register

                        • Login or register to search.
                        • First post
                          Last post
                        0
                        • Categories
                        • Recent
                        • Tags
                        • Popular
                        • Users
                        • Groups