A useful reminder of who actually surrendered to the Taliban
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I stopped reading in the 2nd paragraph.
"Trump is about as honest about foreign policy as he is about his golf score. "
Williamson has obviously never seen Trump play golf. THere's videos all over YouTube.
If you're going to insult, at least be factual in your insults.
OK - I lied. I skimmed through the rest.
Trump—a draft dodger whose fictitious bone spurs kept him out of harm’s way in the Vietnam era
He's 80% of the draft-dodger that Biden is. His bone spurs are as severe as a football player/lifeguard's asthma.
C'mon Kevin. Do better. If you can't get your facts straight, why should I believe anything else you write, not to mention your opinion?
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That seems like cope.
Why not address the undeniable fact that Trump surrendered to the Taliban when they weren’t even in charge of the country? He basically gave them a ‘sell by’ date for the then government of the state.
You gonna deny that? I didn’t think so.
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That seems like cope.
Why not address the undeniable fact that Trump surrendered to the Taliban when they weren’t even in charge of the country? He basically gave them a ‘sell by’ date for the then government of the state.
You gonna deny that? I didn’t think so.
@jon-nyc said in A useful reminder of who actually surrendered to the Taliban:
That seems like cope.
Fair enough. But Williamson is dead wrong on what I commented about, and his (dropping into Williamson-speak here) drooling spittle-flecked hatred of all things Trump really undermines his credibility.
Why not address the undeniable fact that Trump surrendered to the Taliban when they weren’t even in charge of the country? He basically gave them a ‘sell by’ date for the then government of the state.
I may be wrong, but the original Trump plan called for a residual force of about 2500 to remain, with continued control of Bagram AFB (though I may be wrong on that).
You gonna deny that? I didn’t think so.
No denial, just pointing out something that Williamson conveniently omitted.
ETA: I used to have a fair amount of respect for Williamson, but his inability to get basic facts right changes that.
Trump is a a blow-hard, arrogant asshole to be sure. But if you're going to attack his personality, at least be accurate.
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Trump made the positive decision to undermine the government of Afghanistan and negotiate his surrender to the Taliban. Maybe he was stupid enough to think that after the Taliban regained control of Afghanistan (the opposite of our specific war aim in 2001) we could keep them under control with a token force that would exist at their pleasure. But the sheer stupidity of that is surely obvious to all of us now.
All this makes his macabre opportunism at the deaths of 13 soldiers carrying out his plan even more disgusting than it seemed when he was smiling with his thumb up at Arlington. .
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If the agreement was so horrible, as Williamson asserts, why did Biden not change the terms? He had more than half a year to do so. And he didn't. If you can change border policy on day 1 of your administration, why can't you change an agreement with the Afghan government, or Taliban (if, indeed, they were at the table)?
Was this done with Congressional approval?
What should have been done differently, either by Trump or by Biden.
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Under Biden, the Taliban broke six out of the seven things they had agreed to under the Trump brokered Doha Agreement.
How in the hell can you hold the Trump Administration responsible for a withdrawal agreement, when the Taliban broke it to pieces after Biden took office? The Resident could have done what he wanted and been completely
within his rights, since an agreement becomes pretty much null and void when one party shreds everything agreed to.“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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‘Biden didn’t undo his shitty deal’ isn’t exculpatory. Especially given the timeline.
Williams point, after all, is simply to remind you who was the author of our failed policy in Afghanistan.
@jon-nyc said in A useful reminder of who actually surrendered to the Taliban:
‘Biden didn’t undo his shitty deal’ isn’t exculpatory. Especially given the timeline.
He had 8 months. Granted, that might not be enough time for him to have climbed the stairs to Air Force One, but it might have been enough for his handlers to renegotiate/cancel the agreement that was so horrible.
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@jon-nyc said in A useful reminder of who actually surrendered to the Taliban:
‘Biden didn’t undo his shitty deal’ isn’t exculpatory. Especially given the timeline.
He had 8 months. Granted, that might not be enough time for him to have climbed the stairs to Air Force One, but it might have been enough for his handlers to renegotiate/cancel the agreement that was so horrible.
@George-K said in A useful reminder of who actually surrendered to the Taliban:
... but it might have been enough for his handlers to renegotiate/cancel the agreement that was so horrible.
So it's established that an agreement existed, and that it was "horrible."
So much for the Art of the Deal.
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Under Biden, the Taliban broke six out of the seven things they had agreed to under the Trump brokered Doha Agreement.
How in the hell can you hold the Trump Administration responsible for a withdrawal agreement, when the Taliban broke it to pieces after Biden took office? The Resident could have done what he wanted and been completely
within his rights, since an agreement becomes pretty much null and void when one party shreds everything agreed to.@Jolly said in A useful reminder of who actually surrendered to the Taliban:
... the Taliban broke six out of the seven things they had agreed to under the Trump brokered Doha Agreement.
This is where you argue "known or should have known." What, the deal maker didn't foresee the Taliban reneging on various provisions of a deal and put contingencies into the deal?
To make a deal so easily broken, so much for the Art of the Deal.
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@Jolly said in A useful reminder of who actually surrendered to the Taliban:
... the Taliban broke six out of the seven things they had agreed to under the Trump brokered Doha Agreement.
This is where you argue "known or should have known." What, the deal maker didn't foresee the Taliban reneging on various provisions of a deal and put contingencies into the deal?
To make a deal so easily broken, so much for the Art of the Deal.
@Axtremus said in A useful reminder of who actually surrendered to the Taliban:
@Jolly said in A useful reminder of who actually surrendered to the Taliban:
... the Taliban broke six out of the seven things they had agreed to under the Trump brokered Doha Agreement.
This is where you argue "known or should have known." What, the deal maker didn't foresee the Taliban reneging on various provisions of a deal and put contingencies into the deal?
To make a deal so easily broken, so much for the Art of the Deal.
We had something to address contingencies.
The Resident didn't use them.
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@George-K said in A useful reminder of who actually surrendered to the Taliban:
... but it might have been enough for his handlers to renegotiate/cancel the agreement that was so horrible.
So it's established that an agreement existed, and that it was "horrible."
So much for the Art of the Deal.
@Axtremus said in A useful reminder of who actually surrendered to the Taliban:
@George-K said in A useful reminder of who actually surrendered to the Taliban:
... but it might have been enough for his handlers to renegotiate/cancel the agreement that was so horrible.
So it's established that an agreement existed, and that it was "horrible."
So much for the Art of the Deal.
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Regardless, most people don’t give a rat’s ass about the actual decision to leave, but the method of that withdrawal. I’ll entertain the idea that it would have been the same officers making the same plans, I’ll even entertain the idea that the 13 servicemen and women would be dead and Afghani translators would have been falling off of airplanes. But I guarantee you one difference, Heads would have rolled at the Pentagon instead of everyone saying mission accomplished…
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Regardless, most people don’t give a rat’s ass about the actual decision to leave, but the method of that withdrawal. I’ll entertain the idea that it would have been the same officers making the same plans, I’ll even entertain the idea that the 13 servicemen and women would be dead and Afghani translators would have been falling off of airplanes. But I guarantee you one difference, Heads would have rolled at the Pentagon instead of everyone saying mission accomplished…
@LuFins-Dad yes.
The other thought is that these decisions (which are blamed on Trump) are unlikely to be 100% his. They came from advisors and military "experts" in the Pentagon, and he agreed.
It's possible, though unlikely, that he came up with this plan on his own, but I doubt it - no, I can't prove it.
Still the point stands that it happened on Biden's watch - I've been assured that things that happen on a President's watch are his responsibility even if put in motion by his predecessor.
Again, if, as is asserted, it was so horrible, why did Biden's handlers permit it to proceed? They had months to reverse it.
