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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Florida Surgeon Tuesday

Florida Surgeon Tuesday

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  • George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #2

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article291866640.html

    He died during the surgery, the law firm said in an Aug. 30 news release. Bryan’s procedure was performed by Dr. Thomas Shaknovsky, an operative report shows. >

    Afterward, it was discovered that the organ Shaknovsky thought was and labeled as Bryan’s spleen was actually his liver, according to Zarzaur Law.

    In a surgical pathology report written by Dr. Robert Blanchard, the pathologist noted the organ removed from Bryan’s body, which was “designated” as a spleen, was a “grossly identifiable” liver that was partly torn.

    When Shaknovsky wrongly removed the liver, he tore the blood vessels that connected to the organ, “causing immediate and catastrophic blood loss resulting in death,” Zarzaur Law said in a statement.

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • markM Offline
      markM Offline
      mark
      wrote on last edited by
      #3

      What the actual fuck?

      1 Reply Last reply
      • George KG Offline
        George KG Offline
        George K
        wrote on last edited by
        #4

        I sent this to a surgeon friend...

        Screenshot 2024-09-03 at 6.15.06 PM.png

        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • AxtremusA Offline
          AxtremusA Offline
          Axtremus
          wrote on last edited by
          #5

          Must be one of those doctors who are not as competent as most nurse practitioners.

          JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
          • bachophileB Offline
            bachophileB Offline
            bachophile
            wrote on last edited by
            #6

            Poor Dr Shaknovsky, never thought that he would one day be a world famous liver surgeon.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Online
              jon-nycJ Online
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
              #7

              George - seems like this would be a case where it would be reasonable to sue the anesthesiologist too. Surely if you were there you’d have noticed that huge red thing he was removing wasn’t the spleen.

              You were warned.

              George KG 1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by
                #8

                Oh, and not to blame the victim, but who the hell gets surgery in a random village in the Florida panhandle? Four hour drive gets him to UAB or UF.

                You were warned.

                JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                • George KG Offline
                  George KG Offline
                  George K
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #9

                  Forgot to add this...

                  The lawsuit also notes a previous incident in 2023 where Dr. Shaknovsky allegedly removed part of a patient's pancreas instead of performing the intended adrenal gland resection, heightening further concerns about his competence.

                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                    George - seems like this would be a case where it would be reasonable to sue the anesthesiologist too. Surely if you were there you’d have noticed that huge red thing he was removing wasn’t the spleen.

                    George KG Offline
                    George KG Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #10

                    @jon-nyc said in Florida Surgeon Tuesday:

                    George - seems like this would be a case where it would be reasonable to sue the anesthesiologist too. Surely if you were there you’d have noticed that huge red thing he was removing wasn’t the spleen.

                    Yes and no. OR staff as well.

                    When you're taking an organ out, the first thing you want to do is cut off the blood supply. One you ligate the arteries/veins to the organ, then you can proceed to free it up from the surrounding tissues. However, interrupting the blood supply is a Rubicon kind of moment. You don't go back from that. It's not like, once the liver's exposed, you can just put it back.

                    Though, if I were at the head of the table, I would have wondered why the surgeon is working in the right upper quadrant, where the liver lives.

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • AxtremusA Axtremus

                      Must be one of those doctors who are not as competent as most nurse practitioners.

                      JollyJ Offline
                      JollyJ Offline
                      Jolly
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #11

                      @Axtremus said in Florida Surgeon Tuesday:

                      Must be one of those doctors who are not as competent as most nurse practitioners.

                      Nurse practitioners don't do surgery.

                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • JollyJ Offline
                        JollyJ Offline
                        Jolly
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #12

                        From U.S. News:

                        Dr. Thomas J. Shaknovsky is a colon and rectal surgeon in Crestview, Florida and is affiliated with multiple hospitals in the area, including Ascension Sacred Heart Emerald Coast Hospital and Twin Cities Hospital. He received his medical degree from Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine at Midwestern University and has been in practice between 11-20 years. Dr. Thomas J. Shaknovsky has expertise in treating colonoscopy, upper gi endoscopy, surgical removal of colon, among other conditions - see all areas of expertise. Dr. Thomas J. Shaknovsky accepts Medicare, Aetna, Humana, Cigna, Blue Cross, United Healthcare - see other insurance plans accepted. Dr. Thomas J. Shaknovsky is highly recommended by patients.

                        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • JollyJ Offline
                          JollyJ Offline
                          Jolly
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #13

                          BTW, the hospital is a 76-bedder and recognized for excellence in orthopedic surgery (mostly knees and hips. Hey, it's Florida.). Nowadays, that's not podunk. Small, but not podunk.

                          Patient presented with acute belly pain and cause was determined to originate from the spleen. Since the guy is in his 70's, it ain't gonna be something like spherocytosis, so most likely trauma or lymphoma? (Past my pay grade.)

                          So...I'm no doc, but there is a bit of difference in the size of a liver and a spleen. How does a surgeon make such a mistake unless he's under the influence of drugs or is staggering senile?

                          “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                          Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                            Oh, and not to blame the victim, but who the hell gets surgery in a random village in the Florida panhandle? Four hour drive gets him to UAB or UF.

                            JollyJ Offline
                            JollyJ Offline
                            Jolly
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #14

                            @jon-nyc said in Florida Surgeon Tuesday:

                            Oh, and not to blame the victim, but who the hell gets surgery in a random village in the Florida panhandle? Four hour drive gets him to UAB or UF.

                            A. Four hours might be too long. Chopper.
                            B. Find a bed. Find a bed with the right services. Around here, it's not uncommon to board a patient in the ED for a day, until the right bed comes open somewhere. I've seen patients choppered to New Orleans, Jackson and anywhere within almost 200 miles.

                            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • George KG Offline
                              George KG Offline
                              George K
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #15

                              It's not too clear to me how he presented. Four hours is not an unreasonable time to wait after presentation or onset of symptoms.

                              And, all that said, there are two observations I want to make.

                              1. A good surgeon can work at a bad hospital. For simple stuff (and a splenectomy is relatively simple), the size of the place is irrelevant. I worked with a lot of fine surgeons who were on the staff where Mrs. George had her negative experience back in July.

                              2. The converse is true. I worked with more than one bozo at the university. I've seen residents have to bail these guys out.

                              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • bachophileB Offline
                                bachophileB Offline
                                bachophile
                                wrote on last edited by bachophile
                                #16

                                ill try to give my perspective on this, just to try to understand, although, no matter what, the whole story is outrageous.

                                so the patient had abdominal pain, left sided, and somehow this leads to surgery. I must assume that a CT was done, otherwise i truly dont understand what the indication was, there are very few situations where u rush someone to abdominal surgery without imaging and having at least a working differential diagnosis.

                                be that as is it may, in what i read, the intended procedure was a lap splenectomy, and so, they must have gone into the case expecting to see something wrong with spleen. so did they have a CT showing this, or maybe misinterpreted as such.

                                when you do a laparoscopic procedure, one of the funny quirks is, that often your eyes will see what your brain wants you to believe. sort of like a vertigo in an airplane, you interpret your instruments the way you want to.
                                its happened to me in a lap gall bladder where i was convinced i saw one thing, but when i gave up and opened the belly i could see i was way off....

                                anyway, the guy saw what he thought was the spleen but was probably the left lobe of liver, which in some people, can be to the left of the midline, maybe flopping down on the stomach. and he went with that till the bitter end. i actually feel sorry for the guy. (let alone the patient)

                                now doing a splenecetomy is not a particularly hard thing to do, certainly in trauma ive whipped out spleens in open surgery in ten minutes. you just have to ligate the splenic vessesls (without injury to the pancreas) , and short gastrics, which are small vessels between the spleen and the stomach, and out it comes pretty easily. flimsy attachments to the rest of the abdomen.
                                but to take out the left lobe of the liver, i mean you are talking some pretty hard core anatomy. which is why its hard to digest that you can mistake it like that. portal vein, hepatic artery, bile ducts. this is real hard core plumbing,. life threatning plumbing i mean, you really need to screw up big big time to even get the thing out.

                                and the craziest thing is, the guy filled out a path report writing "spleen" meaning that even after he pulled the thing out he still thought it was a spleen. it took what was probably a very befuddled pathologist to note that what was sitting on his table was a liver lobe and not a spleen.

                                its just too bizzarro for words. i mean, i can see very vaguely how you may get confused, vertigonous, but i think even a student or resident would be able to discern that said object was liver and not spleen.

                                anyway, like i said, at least for a day, he was the worlds best known liver surgeon.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • George KG Offline
                                  George KG Offline
                                  George K
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #17

                                  I didn't see that it was supposed to be laparoscopic.

                                  "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                  The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                  bachophileB 1 Reply Last reply
                                  • George KG George K

                                    I didn't see that it was supposed to be laparoscopic.

                                    bachophileB Offline
                                    bachophileB Offline
                                    bachophile
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #18

                                    @George-K https://www.newsweek.com/doctor-surgery-florida-liver-removed-spleen-operation-pensacola-attorney-bryan-1948035

                                    its in the newsweek piece

                                    George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                                    • bachophileB bachophile

                                      @George-K https://www.newsweek.com/doctor-surgery-florida-liver-removed-spleen-operation-pensacola-attorney-bryan-1948035

                                      its in the newsweek piece

                                      George KG Offline
                                      George KG Offline
                                      George K
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #19

                                      @bachophile said in Florida Surgeon Tuesday:

                                      @George-K https://www.newsweek.com/doctor-surgery-florida-liver-removed-spleen-operation-pensacola-attorney-bryan-1948035

                                      its in the newsweek piece

                                      Ah, OK.

                                      So, what pathology in the spleen can cause a sudden onset of left-sided abdominal pain?

                                      Infarct?

                                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • bachophileB Offline
                                        bachophileB Offline
                                        bachophile
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #20

                                        yea maybe, pretty rare, but i still wonder if there was a CT.
                                        not much going on in the left upper quadrant as far as acute diagnoses....anywhere else, ok, u can (but probably shouldn't) go with peritonitis to surgery without imaging,
                                        Right upper-cholecystiis
                                        Right lower, appendix
                                        Left Lower, diverticulitis,
                                        but left upper? very little acute pathology.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • bachophileB Offline
                                          bachophileB Offline
                                          bachophile
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #21

                                          adrenal hemorhage, also very rare. gastric torsion,all really zebras, that no one sane would go into surgery without a CT and at least a reasonable idea of what was going on...

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