Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism

[jon-nyc]

Here’s a story with some extended quotes.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/tucker-carlson-starstruck-by-historian-who-calls-churchill-not-hitler-the-chief-villain-of-ww2-and-casts-holocaust-as-accident/amp/

[Doctor Phibes]

@Renauda said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@Doctor-Phibes

Nor have I.

Doubt that I’ll go to YouTube to explore his revisionist claims as well. From what I can see at a glance he doesn’t warrant further investigation.

Obviously, calling oneself a historian doesn't make it true. I could call myself a jazz musician since I play something approaching jazz on the saxophone, but I'm not really a jazz musician. I could call myself a physicist or a mathematician based on stuff I studied, but clearly I'm nothing of the sort.

Rarely do people willingly describe themselves as bullshit artists.... "And this week, on the Tucker Carlson Show, we listen to three professional bullshit artists making shit up about the holocaust and Vladimir Putin's Russia!" probably isn't going to fly, even it would be refreshingly honest.

[Renauda]

@Doctor-Phibes

“Refreshingly honest” meaning that they actually believe their own bullshit.

No wonder they admire Putin, that is exactly what he is all about.

[Horace]

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

It's on youtube. I guess I'll listen, to see how manic the paraphrase in that tweet is.

He doesn't seem to deny any facts about the holocaust. He uses his rhetorical framings to emphasize different things about the cause and effect, as heterodox podcasters do.

[George K]

Can someone give me a tl;dw summary?

I'm too old and cranky to sit through all this.

[Renauda]

@George-K

That makes two of us.

There is some compelling and recent revisionist history about WWII out there. Sean McMeekin’s Stalin’s War immediately comes to mind. As does David Stahel’s numerous volumes on the Eastern Front.

I doubt if this Cooper podcaster can touch either for historiography.

[Horace]

@George-K said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

Can someone give me a tl;dw summary?

I'm too old and cranky to sit through all this.

Mostly a hagiographic hagiography of Adolph Hitler, according to Jon's links.

[Doctor Phibes]

Mostly a rather stupid attempt to be really controversial, more like.

[Renauda]

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@George-K said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

Can someone give me a tl;dw summary?

I'm too old and cranky to sit through all this.

Mostly a hagiographic hagiography of Adolph Hitler, according to Jon's links.

In other words, both are a load of unmitgated B.S..

[Doctor Phibes]

To portray Churchill as having the primary responsibility for WW2 because he refused to come to terms with Hitler is idiotic.

Apart from anything else, what does he suppose would have happened to European Jews if this had occurred?

[jon-nyc]

@George-K said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

Can someone give me a tl;dw summary?

I'm too old and cranky to sit through all this.

He’s Just Asking Questions about Churchill, Hitler, and the Holocaust.

[jon-nyc]

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

It's on youtube. I guess I'll listen, to see how manic the paraphrase in that tweet is.

He doesn't seem to deny any facts about the holocaust.

The deaths just happened. They succeeded so quickly in their war aims they ended up putting too many people too fast in the camps and next thing ya know a few million are dead. Shit happens! War ain’t beanbag.

[Doctor Phibes]

@jon-nyc said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

It's on youtube. I guess I'll listen, to see how manic the paraphrase in that tweet is.

He doesn't seem to deny any facts about the holocaust.

The deaths just happened. They succeeded so quickly in their war aims they ended up putting too many people too fast in the camps and next thing ya know a few million are dead. Shit happens! War ain’t beanbag.

He actually seems to be saying that killing them was considered more humane than letting them starve to death.

[Jolly]

Ok, who has watched the entire interview?

[Klaus]

PoW were only a very small part of those who died in the concentration camps.

The majority of them were Jews, not PoW.

[George K]

Chat GPT tells me that in addition to the 6 million Jews, an additional 1.8 - 3 million poles, 2-3 million Soviet PoWs.

[Horace]

@Jolly said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

Ok, who has watched the entire interview?

Only me, maybe you.

[LuFins Dad]

Yeah, kinda foresaw this during COVID when the media, the government, the academic/medical groups, and the general powers that be pooh-poohed the lab leak theory, natural immunity, that NY was sending sick seniors back to the nursing homes, and countless other “conspiracy theories” that turned out to not be true. When you unravel the trust in the press, academia, and government to this level, then a lot of people are going to distrust everything.

The problem is a helluva lot bigger, deeper, and more dangerous than a whack job trying to make Hitler out to be a moderate and Churchill out to be a warmonger. It is a serious destabilization of society.

[Horace]

@jon-nyc said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

@Horace said in Haaretz: TuCa and Elon promoting Holocaust revisionism:

It's on youtube. I guess I'll listen, to see how manic the paraphrase in that tweet is.

He doesn't seem to deny any facts about the holocaust.

The deaths just happened. They succeeded so quickly in their war aims they ended up putting too many people too fast in the camps and next thing ya know a few million are dead. Shit happens! War ain’t beanbag.

He chose the "deaths happened" framing because in that context of the conversation he was making an attempt to emphasize Churchill's role in the cause and effect. In other contexts I am sure he would get more explicit about the exterminations in the death camps. The first episode of his podcast, which is about Israel/Palestine, begins with a graphic depiction of the pogroms in Europe which eventually gave rise to Zionism. He does this to humanize a particular side and attempt to describe their perspective and motivations. I assume he will do the same for the Palestinian side, at which point he will surely run afoul of something or other that will make him disgusting again. Personally, from what I've heard of him, I appreciate him and find him interesting.

I should note that he didn't build a compelling case for viewing Hitler or Churchill differently. I never got a clear idea of how he thinks the war and the holocaust would have been different if Churchill had made "better" decisions.

[George K]

Your Norm MacDonald joke of the day - if he were still alive, that is.