No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals
-
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/5th-circuit-court-rules-illegals-dont-have-2a-rights/
On Tuesday, a three-judge panel of the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in the case against Jose Paz Medina-Cantu that Second Amendment rights do not apply to those who have entered the country illegally. Medina-Cantu was arrested in 2022 by Border Patrol agents and charged with illegally possessing a handgun and unlawfully re-entering the country after being deported.
Medina-Cantu’s attorneys used the Second Amendment defense based on the second standard of the 2022 Supreme Court ruling in New York State Rifle & Pistol Assn. v. Bruen. They argued that there was no historical tradition dating back to around when the Second Amendment was adopted in 1791 of disarming people based solely on their immigration status.
However, the circuit court never considered the second Bruen standard because it determined that Medina-Cantu didn’t have a Second Amendment right that could be infringed, noting that the Bruen ruling “did not unequivocally abrogate our precedent that the plain text of the Second Amendment does not encompass illegal aliens.”
Interesting because the text of the 2nd amendment states, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
I was told, years ago on this forum, that "people" does not refer to citizens exclusively, so that some rights are available to anyone in the country. At the time, there was no distinction made between legal and illegal "person" in the conversation.
-
Note that the court made a distinction between legal and illegal aliens.
Personally, I think an illegal alien does not have any rights under the Constitution.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
-
That's a tricky question, but in specific cases like this I agree. I can see where some would apply, like the prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. It would seem those would go along more with natural law and basic human rights rather than enumerated constitutional ones specified for the people of the USA.
-
That's a tricky question, but in specific cases like this I agree. I can see where some would apply, like the prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. It would seem those would go along more with natural law and basic human rights rather than enumerated constitutional ones specified for the people of the USA.
@Mik said in No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals:
That's a tricky question, but in specific cases like this I agree. I can see where some would apply, like the prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment. It would seem those would go along more with natural law and basic human rights rather than enumerated constitutional ones specified for the people of the USA.
Personally, I don't think an illegal alien should be able to carry a gun in the US based on the US Constitution.
However, some of the more outspoken members of the gun-rights brigade have occasionally tried to argue that gun ownership is a basic human right. I think that's bollocks, but that's what they imply. Either something is a 'right' or it isn't, right?
-
Note that the court made a distinction between legal and illegal aliens.
Personally, I think an illegal alien does not have any rights under the Constitution.
@Jolly said in No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals:
Note that the court made a distinction between legal and illegal aliens.
Personally, I think an illegal alien does not have any rights under the Constitution.
Can they be enslaved?
Can they be imprisoned indefinitely without charges or access to a lawyer?
"You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
-Cormac McCarthy -
According to the non-peer-reviewed Wikipedia:
According to Human Rights: The Essential Reference, "the American Declaration of Independence was the first civic document that met a modern definition of human rights."[29] The Constitution recognizes a number of inalienable human rights, including freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion, the right to keep and bear arms, freedom from cruel and unusual punishment, and the right to a fair trial by jury.
Now, it seems to me that if the right to keep and bear arms is indeed an inalienable human right, then it should apply to non-citizens.
If you don't believe this to be the case, then surely it is no longer an inalienable human right, but something else.
-
@Jolly said in No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals:
Note that the court made a distinction between legal and illegal aliens.
Personally, I think an illegal alien does not have any rights under the Constitution.
Can they be enslaved?
Can they be imprisoned indefinitely without charges or access to a lawyer?
@jon-nyc said in No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals:
@Jolly said in No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals:
Note that the court made a distinction between legal and illegal aliens.
Personally, I think an illegal alien does not have any rights under the Constitution.
Can they be enslaved?
Can they be imprisoned indefinitely without charges or access to a lawyer?
- Basic human right.
- That's a good question. By definition they are guilty of charges (illegal) and subject to arrest and imprisonment. Personally, I would just deport them without benefit of attorney. But if we're done, best it were done quickly. It would be inhumane to hold them for an extended period.
-
A constitutional amendment to prohibit such state laws would be a slam dunk pass, so of what value is this question? If there exists a constitutional loophole that allows states to pass laws that violate 99.9% of the citizenry's basic understanding of morality and humanity, then there exist processes to close those loopholes.
Owning guns is a "right" we already restrict certain citizens from, notably certain criminals. Nobody seems too bent out of shape about that, and it doesn't raise thought experiments about whether states might pass laws to legalize the rape or enslavement of felons.
-
I think you know the answer to your question.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
-
@jon-nyc said in No 2nd Amendment Right for Illegals:
Jolly is perfectly capable of avoiding his own questions.
You haven't answered the question either. And, you should know that whether something is "constitutional" is not always cut and dried. The cutting and drying occurs in arguments before the court.
As Jack Smith will attest to, one does not ask permission from the Supreme Court to do something, one just does it, and then allows SCOTUS to provide guidance about what is or is not constitutional. Any conceit you may have that your question has a definitive answer, would have to be justified.
