In four years you won't have to vote again
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@Doctor-Phibes said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
@Jolly said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
Okay, we'll go down this path again...Although what he said in the speech doesn't have anything to do with a democracy problem.
Trump thinks he was rooked in the 2020 election. He did everything he legally could, to fight the result, including exploring some unique Constitutional avenues. But at no time did he step outside of the law nor did he fail to leave office when all legal avenues failed. (And yeah, think think he got rooked, too. In more than one way. I have lots of company in that view).
So if you bought into the "Democracy In Peril" BS, that was preceded by the failed "Bidenomics" messaging, the Dems have now pretty much shifted from DIP to "Republicans Are Weird". That's the campaign BS this week. Stay tuned, it will change.
So to summarize: When Trump says democracy is under attack and the election was stolen you have no problem buying into his claim which he fully believes. When the other side says it, they're gullible idiots or ridiculous liars. Does that cover it?
Look at the Arizona primary results from last night. As I said, I have lots of company.
How did we elect a man to be president, who was starting to lurch into senility ahd campaigned from his basement? We "elected" him with 81M votes, 58% which were mail-in ballots.
I don't think we have ever quite come to grips with The Swamp line, that that was a free and fair election. The Dems further reinforce that perception by fighting any type of election reform tooth and nail.
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I think there's a lot of wishful thinking going on on both sides of the divide.
How did we elect a man to be president, who was starting to lurch into senility ahd campaigned from his basement? We "elected" him with 81M votes, 58% which were mail-in ballots.
The fact that ridiculous candidates get voted in isn't evidence of fraud. Other people have asked themselves how on earth somebody like Donald Trump can get elected. People I know outside the US laughed at me in 2015 when I said I thought he could win it. You can't see it, perhaps, but to many people he appears like a bad joke.
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@Jolly said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
Trump thinks he was rooked in the 2020 election. He did everything he legally could, to fight the result, including exploring some unique Constitutional avenues. But at no time did he step outside of the law nor did he fail to leave office when all legal avenues failed. (And yeah, think think he got rooked, too. In more than one way. I have lots of company in that view).
Even if all that were true, a very substantial number of people in the US do believe that Trump could be a threat to democracy and the rule of law. Given that that is the case, a reasonable person would be very precise and careful in what he or she says about these things. A reasonable person would not want his political opponents to be in doubt about whether he plays be the rules, because that leads to completely unproductive polarisation and aggression.
Even if you ignore the debate about the 2020 election, Trump has a long history of ambiguous or even non-ambiguous statements playing with his contempt of playing by the rules of democracy and constitution.
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@Klaus said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
@Jolly said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
Trump thinks he was rooked in the 2020 election. He did everything he legally could, to fight the result, including exploring some unique Constitutional avenues. But at no time did he step outside of the law nor did he fail to leave office when all legal avenues failed. (And yeah, think think he got rooked, too. In more than one way. I have lots of company in that view).
Even if all that were true, a very substantial number of people in the US do believe that Trump could be a threat to democracy and the rule of law. Given that that is the case, a reasonable person would be very precise and careful in what he or she says about these things. A reasonable person would not want his political opponents to be in doubt about whether he plays be the rules, because that leads to completely unproductive polarisation and aggression.
On other words, a reasonable person would kowtow to political radicals?
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Reasonable person? You're having a laugh. Trumpy badger doesn't give a shit.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
Reasonable person? You're having a laugh. Trumpy badger doesn't give a shit.
Do you think he should?
Please show me where reason and temperance has gotten any republican anywhere when dealing with the wokes. I'm serious.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
On other words, a reasonable person would kowtow to political radicals?
No, that's not at all what I said. Is being precise and careful in one's speech "kowtow"? Also, it's barely only the radicals who have question marks about Trump and democracy. Is @jon-nyc a radical? Am I?
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@Klaus said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
@Aqua-Letifer said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
On other words, a reasonable person would kowtow to political radicals?
No, that's not at all what I said. Is being precise and careful in one's speech "kowtow"?
More precise and careful than writing "polarisation" I guess.
Also, it's barely only the radicals who have question marks about Trump and democracy. Is @jon-nyc a radical? Am I?
I honestly think it's a bit silly that out of all things fucked up with this upcoming election, this is what you chose to worry about.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
Please show me where reason and temperance has gotten any republican anywhere when dealing with the wokes. I'm serious.
It's not just the wokes who think that Trump is a potentially dangerous individual.
I think that how he behaved in 2020 was intended to destabilize the country. I'm not saying it was a coup attempt, but it wasn't a good thing by any means. The fact that it was, rather typically for him, quite inept and incompetent, is probably a good thing.
I personally think there's something wrong with Donald Trump, and I'd much rather the GOP picked somebody else, even if their policies are more at odds with mine than his are. Am I one of the wokes? I know, TDS makes everybody woke.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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Is Trump a little bit of a loose cannon, a spitballing, ADD idea machine? Are some of his ideas dumb? Are some perceptive and brilliant?
Good Lord, yes! It may be his best quality.
Trump is at his absolute best when he exposes the flaws in the machine. When he makes people examine exactly how something happens and why it is happening.
He's not a threat to democracy. He's actually a product of it.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
@Aqua-Letifer said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
Please show me where reason and temperance has gotten any republican anywhere when dealing with the wokes. I'm serious.
It's not just the wokes who think that Trump is a potentially dangerous individual.
I think that how he behaved in 2020 was intended to destabilize the country. I'm not saying it was a coup attempt, but it wasn't a good thing by any means. The fact that it was, rather typically for him, quite inept and incompetent, is probably a good thing.
I personally think there's something wrong with Donald Trump, and I'd much rather the GOP picked somebody else, even if their policies are more at odds with mine than his are. Am I one of the wokes?
Politics is downstream to culture. Culture's a better predictor.
And anyway, we on the same page about Trump. However, Trump tries to pull levers he thinks will work for his base. There are reasons (sure, not good ones) he's the guy.
One of the most ridiculous positions I hear from non-Americans is that Trump happened in a vacuum. Everything was fine and perfect and everybody was happy with liberal leadership (nevermind that we radicalized social media, the schools, the entertainment industry and science itself) until Orange Man came to town, and brainwashed the poor stupid people. Or maybe he necromanced the Nazis and now they're disguising themselves as American tradies, I forget the narrative sometimes.
My point is that they don't understand that politics is downstream to culture. The liberals who hate Trump so much contributed the most to having someone like him be the guy for the GOP.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
The liberals who hate Trump so much contributed the most to having someone like him be the guy for the GOP.
Yep.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
One of the most ridiculous positions I hear from non-Americans is that Trump happened in a vacuum.
Yes, that's clearly bollocks, as can be evidenced from the rise of similar and different right-wing populist candidates elsewhere. Trump wasn't even the first. Nigel Farage for example has been involved in British politics since the late 90's, and I'm sure there are lots of other examples.
Proud supporter of Plan 2525. Everything you think, do and say will be in the pill you took today.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
@Aqua-Letifer said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
One of the most ridiculous positions I hear from non-Americans is that Trump happened in a vacuum.
Yes, that's clearly bollocks, as can be evidenced from the rise of similar and different right-wing populist candidates elsewhere. Trump wasn't even the first. Nigel Farage for example has been involved in British politics since the late 90's, and I'm sure there are lots of other examples.
That's my thing. This isn't just an America problem, and I don't think it's political in nature even though there are obvious political consequences.
Personally, I'll be very happy if by February 2025, the lights are still on, there's still food at the grocery store and concepts like "jobs" still exist so Trump's shenanigans aren't much on my radar.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
@Aqua-Letifer said in In four years you won't have to vote again:
One of the most ridiculous positions I hear from non-Americans is that Trump happened in a vacuum.
Yes, that's clearly bollocks, as can be evidenced from the rise of similar and different right-wing populist candidates elsewhere. Trump wasn't even the first. Nigel Farage for example has been involved in British politics since the late 90's, and I'm sure there are lots of other examples.
I would agree. Nationalist populism began to attract adherents on continental Europe back in the 1980s. It was however in 1990s during the reconstruction period of the Eastern European states that it began to really take hold. North America only played with the populist trend, usually in the guise of social conservatism, until 2008 in the wake of the economic meltdown and election of Obama with the rise of the Tea Bag faction and reaction to globalisation inside the Republican Party. Similar trend here in Canada although without the overt social conservative character seen in the US.
“Little by little I am learning the art of being quite content by doing very little slowly” ~ Lionel Hardcastle
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@Renauda Interesting that the book I am reading (The Coming of the Third Reich) goes into great detail 1920's Germany and the raise nationalism and populism, etc.
NOTE: I AM IN NO WAY COMPARING 1920's Germany with 2020's USA. But it was an interesting look at how things started there.
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I know the trilogy well, I read all three volumes a couple of years ago. There are a few similarities particularly in current continental Europe rather than North America. Specifically how traditional conservatism has been supplanted and relegated to near irrelevancy. This is especially the case in Eastern Europe.
