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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Should we take another hard look?

Should we take another hard look?

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  • L Offline
    L Offline
    Loki
    wrote on last edited by
    #14

    Other countries will be out in front of us. We can benefit from their results for decision making.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ Offline
      jon-nycJ Offline
      jon-nyc
      wrote on last edited by
      #15

      Yes and no. Both China and a Russia have an ‘approved’ vaccine. But they’re basically doing phase 3 with a different name - ‘limited rollout’.

      True, they’ll hit a bigger N and will show safety and efficacy earlier. But (a) we won’t necessarily be able to trust their data and (b) the drugs aren’t identical, so it doesn’t help us approve ours any quicker.

      Only non-witches get due process.

      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
      L 1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

        Yes and no. Both China and a Russia have an ‘approved’ vaccine. But they’re basically doing phase 3 with a different name - ‘limited rollout’.

        True, they’ll hit a bigger N and will show safety and efficacy earlier. But (a) we won’t necessarily be able to trust their data and (b) the drugs aren’t identical, so it doesn’t help us approve ours any quicker.

        L Offline
        L Offline
        Loki
        wrote on last edited by
        #16

        @jon-nyc said in Should we take another hard look?:

        Yes and no. Both China and a Russia have an ‘approved’ vaccine. But they’re basically doing phase 3 with a different name - ‘limited rollout’.

        True, they’ll hit a bigger N and will show safety and efficacy earlier. But (a) we won’t necessarily be able to trust their data and (b) the drugs aren’t identical, so it doesn’t help us approve ours any quicker.

        I am talking about pressure to move fast. Results will go viral even if people challenge them. We going to just sit there? Really? I doubt it.

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        • jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by
          #17

          Listen to Moderna’s, AZ’s, or Pfizer’s earnings calls. Nobody’s just sitting around.

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          1 Reply Last reply
          • JollyJ Jolly

            At an old drug?

            https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/20/why-is-the-media-suppressing-information-about-hydroxychloroquines-effectiveness-against-covid/

            AxtremusA Away
            AxtremusA Away
            Axtremus
            wrote on last edited by
            #18

            @Jolly said in Should we take another hard look?:

            At an old drug?

            https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/20/why-is-the-media-suppressing-information-about-hydroxychloroquines-effectiveness-against-covid/

            Why give "the media" power over what drugs to promote, what drugs to bury?
            For that matter, why give any politician power over what drugs to promote, what drugs to bury?

            Let the medical establishment do their thing and you pay attention to the medical establishment. The CDC, the FDA, the WHO, the revered academic journals ... pay attention to those.
            Yeah, from time to time, they make mistakes.
            But they are still a lot than "the media", a lot better than just about any politician.

            JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by
              #19

              As if on cue.

              https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/23/trump-considering-fast-tracking-astrazeneca-vaccine-before-election.html

              But it’s the AZ. Probably a wiser choice, it’s the one the Russians stole so it’s gotten more testing.

              Only non-witches get due process.

              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
              1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                @Jolly said in Should we take another hard look?:

                @jon-nyc said in Should we take another hard look?:

                @Aqua-Letifer said in Should we take another hard look?:

                When we politicize science that heavily, we're done for. What's next, pro/con covid vaccine along political lines?

                I can almost see it happening, because Trump will likely be pushing for pre-election approval of the mRNA vaccine, which will cause the (not entirely unjustified) counter reaction about it being a brand new untested technology etc.

                What that scenario has going against it is that Trumpists seem to make up a good chunk of the 50% who say they won’t take a Covid vaccine at all.

                I think Trump is going to push for large trials, not a full roll-out. I could be wrong.

                There’s an n=30k trial going on now. Though the endpoints are listed at 2 years (Oct 2022, given the lag time of getting 30k people stuck from a 7/20 start), the FDA has made lots of noises about granting pre-approval at the 6 month mark if all is going well.

                I think Trump will push hard for a late October approval, or at least some creative rebranding of the trial status to make it seem like a pre-election victory.

                jon-nycJ Offline
                jon-nycJ Offline
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                #20

                @jon-nyc said in Should we take another hard look?:

                I think Trump will push hard for a late October approval, or at least some creative rebranding of the trial status to make it seem like a pre-election victory.

                From the CNBC piece:

                One option, according to the FT report, would involve the U.S. Food and Drug Administration awarding “emergency use authorization” for the vaccine, which was developed by Oxford University and AstraZeneca.

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nycJ Offline
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                  #21

                  Funny thing is AZ hasn’t even started recruiting for their big n=30k P3 trial in the US.

                  They do have an n=5k trial in Brazil though which started dosing last quarter.

                  Only non-witches get due process.

                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #22

                    Oh wow. The administration told GOP lawmakers they would approve a vaccine before the election but weren’t sure which one. AZ is just considered the best candidate.

                    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/23/world/covid-19-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

                    Only non-witches get due process.

                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • AxtremusA Axtremus

                      @Jolly said in Should we take another hard look?:

                      At an old drug?

                      https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/20/why-is-the-media-suppressing-information-about-hydroxychloroquines-effectiveness-against-covid/

                      Why give "the media" power over what drugs to promote, what drugs to bury?
                      For that matter, why give any politician power over what drugs to promote, what drugs to bury?

                      Let the medical establishment do their thing and you pay attention to the medical establishment. The CDC, the FDA, the WHO, the revered academic journals ... pay attention to those.
                      Yeah, from time to time, they make mistakes.
                      But they are still a lot than "the media", a lot better than just about any politician.

                      JollyJ Offline
                      JollyJ Offline
                      Jolly
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #23

                      @Axtremus said in Should we take another hard look?:

                      @Jolly said in Should we take another hard look?:

                      At an old drug?

                      https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/20/why-is-the-media-suppressing-information-about-hydroxychloroquines-effectiveness-against-covid/

                      Why give "the media" power over what drugs to promote, what drugs to bury?
                      For that matter, why give any politician power over what drugs to promote, what drugs to bury?

                      Let the medical establishment do their thing and you pay attention to the medical establishment. The CDC, the FDA, the WHO, the revered academic journals ... pay attention to those.
                      Yeah, from time to time, they make mistakes.
                      But they are still a lot than "the media", a lot better than just about any politician.

                      Lad, if you don't think politics enter into the world of Big Pharma, you are naive.

                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

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