Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse

The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. I agree with Gorsuch

I agree with Gorsuch

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
10 Posts 5 Posters 64 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • MikM Away
    MikM Away
    Mik
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    ..and dispute the findings on the 6 justices. That most people are aware they are breaking the law does not constitute evidence that she knew. By that logic you could have an expert witness testify that most gun murders are committed by black males therefore this one is probably guilty.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gorsuch-chastises-supreme-court-majority-in-drug-trafficking-case-dissent/ar-BB1oBk0C?ocid=msedgntp&pc=LCTS&cvid=a3e6d8993deb47c5a1a08d90b2569489&ei=52

    “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

    1 Reply Last reply
    • HoraceH Offline
      HoraceH Offline
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      That would not have been the totality of the case against her. I guess the specific contention is that the expert testimony should have been inadmissible, as a statement about her mental state, but there's no indication that without that expert testimony she would not have been convicted anyway.

      If a claim by a drug mule not to have been aware of the drugs secreted in their vehicle becomes a powerful piece of exculpatory evidence, then we can just assume that all drug mules going forward will be playing the ignorance card in all trials, and to good effect. Maybe even truthfully. "Hey, there's this mystery business where they'll pay you lots of money to drive you car to America, after they tune it up in their garage. Your job is to drive to this place, leave your car overnight, then you can come back home". I guess the cartels can just start doing that forever, and nobody will ever pay a price for muling.

      Education is extremely important.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • MikM Away
        MikM Away
        Mik
        wrote on last edited by Mik
        #3

        Except that the drugs were coming FROM Mexico, not INTO Mexico.

        Still, she can claim lack of awareness, but I doubt the jury will buy it. The expert testimony is not in my opinion evidence to be considered for a criminal trial. That most are aware - which I believe is true - does not constitute beyond reasonable doubt.

        “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

        HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
          #4

          Though I’m sympathetic to the dissent there’s some nuance here.

          The expert witness wasn’t testifying about ‘people who are like’ the defendant. Rather he was talking about how Mexican drug cartels operate and that they don’t use unwitting mules.

          So he wasn’t implicating her guilt by membership of a group. Rather he was knocking down one of her (several) defenses. (She claimed that she didn’t realize there were drugs in her car)

          "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
          -Cormac McCarthy

          1 Reply Last reply
          • MikM Mik

            Except that the drugs were coming FROM Mexico, not INTO Mexico.

            Still, she can claim lack of awareness, but I doubt the jury will buy it. The expert testimony is not in my opinion evidence to be considered for a criminal trial. That most are aware - which I believe is true - does not constitute beyond reasonable doubt.

            HoraceH Offline
            HoraceH Offline
            Horace
            wrote on last edited by Horace
            #5

            @Mik said in I agree with Gorsuch:

            Except that the drugs were coming FROM Mexico, not INTO Mexico.

            I didn't imply otherwise? At least I didn't intend to.

            That most are aware - which I believe is true - does not constitute beyond reasonable doubt.

            Just another piece of the puzzle. Juries weigh the totality of evidence, circumstantial and otherwise, to determine whether the reasonable doubt threshold has been met.

            The sort of game played by a defendant of "not being aware", and having that plausible deniability of not being aware, reminds me of the thought experiment of three people in a room, one gets murdered, and the other two blame each other. Absent any other evidence, how does a jury not allow the guilty party to go free? We just depend on there being more evidence, and that thought experiment never happening in practice. Though it sort of has. One that comes to mind is the case of Robert Wone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Robert_Eric_Wone

            Education is extremely important.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • JollyJ Offline
              JollyJ Offline
              Jolly
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Again, showing the lack of a monolithic conservative faction of the court.

              “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

              Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

              HoraceH jon-nycJ 2 Replies Last reply
              • MikM Away
                MikM Away
                Mik
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Yep.

                “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                1 Reply Last reply
                • JollyJ Jolly

                  Again, showing the lack of a monolithic conservative faction of the court.

                  HoraceH Offline
                  HoraceH Offline
                  Horace
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @Jolly said in I agree with Gorsuch:

                  Again, showing the lack of a monolithic conservative faction of the court.

                  In fairness, Jackson crossed her ideological line on this one too. She and Gorsuch swapped tribes.

                  Education is extremely important.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • JollyJ Jolly

                    Again, showing the lack of a monolithic conservative faction of the court.

                    jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @Jolly said in I agree with Gorsuch:

                    Again, showing the lack of a monolithic conservative faction of the court.

                    Or liberal for that matter.

                    "You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."
                    -Cormac McCarthy

                    George KG 1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                      @Jolly said in I agree with Gorsuch:

                      Again, showing the lack of a monolithic conservative faction of the court.

                      Or liberal for that matter.

                      George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @jon-nyc said in I agree with Gorsuch:

                      Or liberal for that matter.

                      Yeah, but we never read about that in the papers, do we?

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      Reply
                      • Reply as topic
                      Log in to reply
                      • Oldest to Newest
                      • Newest to Oldest
                      • Most Votes


                      • Login

                      • Don't have an account? Register

                      • Login or register to search.
                      • First post
                        Last post
                      0
                      • Categories
                      • Recent
                      • Tags
                      • Popular
                      • Users
                      • Groups