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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Retroactive Abortions

Retroactive Abortions

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  • JollyJ Offline
    JollyJ Offline
    Jolly
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Maybe that's what those white docs are doing...

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/18/health/black-babies-mortality-rate-doctors-study-wellness-scli-intl/index.html

    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

    1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ Offline
      jon-nycJ Offline
      jon-nyc
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      The headline is so misleading as to be essentially false.

      Only non-witches get due process.

      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
      KlausK 1 Reply Last reply
      • JollyJ Offline
        JollyJ Offline
        Jolly
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        It's CNN.

        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

        1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

          The headline is so misleading as to be essentially false.

          KlausK Online
          KlausK Online
          Klaus
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          @jon-nyc please explain.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nycJ Offline
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
            #5

            Headline is:

            Black newborns 3 times more likely to die when looked after by white doctors

            But the piece says:

            The mortality rate of black newborns shrunk by between 39% and 58% when black physicians took charge of the birth, according to the research,

            (And even that is unlikely to be true, I’d love to see their data)

            The piece does say this:

            When cared for by white physicians, black newborns were about three times more likely to die in the hospital than white newborns, the researchers found.

            But that bolded part is not what’s implied by the headline

            Also they don’t bother mentioning the ratio when seen by black physicians. The racial disparity in mortality rates is not primarily a function of physician care of newborns. And whatever component of it is traceable to physician care, almost certainly isn’t primarily driven by race of the physician.

            Only non-witches get due process.

            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
            1 Reply Last reply
            • MikM Offline
              MikM Offline
              Mik
              wrote on last edited by Mik
              #6

              The whole article is a cherry-picked rage builder. There are no real statistics presented. The only line in that article that is relevant is this:

              "Strikingly, these effects appear to manifest more strongly in more complicated cases, and when hospitals deliver more Black newborns,"

              OK, so it manifests with complicated cases, which implies that specialists become involved. So how do we count how many physicians are on a case? Nowhere to be found. How many specialists and what is the ratio of whaite to black specialists? How many hospitalists versus obstetricians?

              How many complicated cases in black births versus white births?

              This article is utter garbage and any physician should be offended. The clearly crafted implication is that white physicians don't care about black infants.

              “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

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              • jon-nycJ Offline
                jon-nycJ Offline
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                #7

                It leverages two flawed heuristics surrounding race that are quite prevalent.

                1. Disparities=discrimination as the null hypothesis

                and the more subtle one:

                1. Discrimination occurs at the point where the disparity is measured

                #2 does a lot of mischief in the discussion around policing. And hiring and education. And here too.

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                1 Reply Last reply
                • KlausK Online
                  KlausK Online
                  Klaus
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  I also find it very hard to believe that white doctors care less about black babies.

                  However, we have to distinguish two things here:

                  1. The accuracy of the CNN report relative to the scientific paper
                  2. The accuracy of the scientific paper.

                  Regarding 1), my impression is that while they exaggerate some numbers (tripled vs doubled), it seems to be a mostly fair summary of the scientific paper.

                  So, the thing we really should look at is the paper (which can easily be retrieved via scihub).

                  In particular, I wonder

                  1. is data upon which the paper is based "legit"?
                  2. is their statistical analysis correct?

                  If the answer to both is "yes", then it would be interesting to speculate on possible causes for the disparity.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • L Offline
                    L Offline
                    Loki
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @Klaus said in Retroactive Abortions:

                    I also find it very hard to believe that white doctors care less about black babies.

                    However, we have to distinguish two things here:

                    1. The accuracy of the CNN report relative to the scientific paper
                    2. The accuracy of the scientific paper.

                    Regarding 1), my impression is that while they exaggerate some numbers (tripled vs doubled), it seems to be a mostly fair summary of the scientific paper.

                    CNN leaves out a significant finding that the mother’s mortality is not affected by black vs. white doctor. Interesting finding relative to the other political hot button of maternal mortality and race.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • CopperC Offline
                      CopperC Offline
                      Copper
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Idiots

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                        #11

                        Seen on Twitter. Incendiary but surely a risk.

                        Let's not lose the forest for the trees on the "white docs kill black babies" paper. The big picture is that 𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘯 𝘪𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘱𝘢𝘱𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘥𝘦𝘣𝘶𝘯𝘬𝘦𝘥 it will be used by every med school in the country to justify admitting people who flunked organic chemistry.

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
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