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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Non-Compete

Non-Compete

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  • L Offline
    L Offline
    LuFins Dad
    wrote on 20 Apr 2024, 17:46 last edited by
    #7

    Non-competes are generally worthless if a former employee chooses to challenge them anyway. The only time that I’ve heard of them actually standing up to a court challenge was in the case of an employee taking his client list directly to a competitor.

    The Brad

    R 1 Reply Last reply 20 Apr 2024, 18:11
    • C Copper
      20 Apr 2024, 16:06

      @George-K said in Non-Compete:

      ban employers from requiring workers to sign non-competes and require recission of existing non-competes.

      Doesn't that take a bargaining chip away from the employees?

      M Offline
      M Offline
      Mik
      wrote on 20 Apr 2024, 17:46 last edited by
      #8

      @Copper said in Non-Compete:

      @George-K said in Non-Compete:

      ban employers from requiring workers to sign non-competes and require recission of existing non-competes.

      Doesn't that take a bargaining chip away from the employees?

      Quite the opposite.

      "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

      1 Reply Last reply
      • L LuFins Dad
        20 Apr 2024, 17:46

        Non-competes are generally worthless if a former employee chooses to challenge them anyway. The only time that I’ve heard of them actually standing up to a court challenge was in the case of an employee taking his client list directly to a competitor.

        R Offline
        R Offline
        Renauda
        wrote on 20 Apr 2024, 18:11 last edited by Renauda
        #9

        @LuFins-Dad

        Here they only work or have teeth if the non compete is accompanied by a substantial financial payout to the employee.

        Elbows up!

        1 Reply Last reply
        • M Offline
          M Offline
          Mik
          wrote on 20 Apr 2024, 18:29 last edited by
          #10

          Has to be some form f compensation here as well.

          "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

          1 Reply Last reply
          • T Offline
            T Offline
            taiwan_girl
            wrote on 21 Apr 2024, 02:00 last edited by
            #11

            There must be some way to take into account not transferring company "secrets" and strategies. NDA's or non-competes do serve a purpose.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • M Offline
              M Offline
              Mik
              wrote on 21 Apr 2024, 02:02 last edited by
              #12

              Trade secrets can be protected, but non-competes are very hard to craft such that they will stand up. They have to be very narrow.

              "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

              T 1 Reply Last reply 21 Apr 2024, 02:19
              • M Mik
                21 Apr 2024, 02:02

                Trade secrets can be protected, but non-competes are very hard to craft such that they will stand up. They have to be very narrow.

                T Offline
                T Offline
                taiwan_girl
                wrote on 21 Apr 2024, 02:19 last edited by
                #13

                @Mik Maybe trade secrets is not the right term, but I think that a person can gain a lot of company knowledge that would be very valuable to another company, even if it is not direct "quantitative" information, but more "qualitative" information.

                G 1 Reply Last reply 21 Apr 2024, 11:56
                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  Mik
                  wrote on 21 Apr 2024, 03:06 last edited by
                  #14

                  Yes, that will happen in the course of employment. But it should not keep you from seeking employment in your field. A non-compete is what finally led me to go out on my own in consulting. They demanded I sign one and I declined.

                  "The intelligent man who is proud of his intelligence is like the condemned man who is proud of his large cell." Simone Weil

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • T taiwan_girl
                    21 Apr 2024, 02:19

                    @Mik Maybe trade secrets is not the right term, but I think that a person can gain a lot of company knowledge that would be very valuable to another company, even if it is not direct "quantitative" information, but more "qualitative" information.

                    G Offline
                    G Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on 21 Apr 2024, 11:56 last edited by
                    #15

                    @taiwan_girl said in Non-Compete:

                    Maybe trade secrets is not the right term, but I think that a person can gain a lot of company knowledge that would be very valuable to another company

                    The situation in the medical field is quite different. The only "asset" you could probably take with you is your patient base. If you're someone without an office (radiology, pathology, anesthesiology) I don't understand why a non-compete would be justifiable, and yet, they exist.

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    T 1 Reply Last reply 22 Apr 2024, 00:59
                    • G George K
                      21 Apr 2024, 11:56

                      @taiwan_girl said in Non-Compete:

                      Maybe trade secrets is not the right term, but I think that a person can gain a lot of company knowledge that would be very valuable to another company

                      The situation in the medical field is quite different. The only "asset" you could probably take with you is your patient base. If you're someone without an office (radiology, pathology, anesthesiology) I don't understand why a non-compete would be justifiable, and yet, they exist.

                      T Offline
                      T Offline
                      taiwan_girl
                      wrote on 22 Apr 2024, 00:59 last edited by
                      #16

                      @George-K In your case, who would you be signing one with?

                      G 1 Reply Last reply 22 Apr 2024, 01:06
                      • T taiwan_girl
                        22 Apr 2024, 00:59

                        @George-K In your case, who would you be signing one with?

                        G Offline
                        G Offline
                        George K
                        wrote on 22 Apr 2024, 01:06 last edited by
                        #17

                        @taiwan_girl said in Non-Compete:

                        @George-K In your case, who would you be signing one with?

                        If your employer (group) had a non-compete, you'd have to find a job which is anywhere from 10-20 miles farther than your original place. Probably at least a 45 minute drive more.

                        "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                        The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • G Offline
                          G Offline
                          George K
                          wrote on 23 Apr 2024, 21:56 last edited by
                          #18

                          https://www.npr.org/2024/04/23/1246655366/ftc-bans-noncompete-agreements-lina-khan

                          "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                          The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • T Offline
                            T Offline
                            taiwan_girl
                            wrote on 4 Jul 2024, 02:45 last edited by
                            #19

                            https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-judge-blocks-biden-administration-ban-worker-noncompete-agreements-2024-07-03/

                            A federal judge in Texas on Wednesday partially blocked a U.S. Federal Trade Commission rule from taking effect that would ban agreements commonly signed by workers not to join their employers' rivals or launch competing businesses.
                            U.S. District Judge Ada Brown in Dallas said in a written decision the FTC, which enforces federal antitrust laws, lacked the power to adopt broad rules prohibiting practices that it deems unfair methods of competition.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • T Offline
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                              taiwan_girl
                              wrote on 16 Aug 2024, 01:22 last edited by
                              #20

                              https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/second-us-judge-blocks-ftc-ban-worker-noncompete-agreements-2024-08-15/

                              A federal judge in Florida has temporarily blocked a U.S. Federal Trade Commission rule that would ban agreements commonly signed by workers not to join their employers' rivals or launch competing businesses, becoming the second judge to rule that the ban is likely invalid.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • L Offline
                                L Offline
                                LuFins Dad
                                wrote on 16 Aug 2024, 01:26 last edited by LuFins Dad
                                #21

                                Get your popcorn… my guess is that it ultimately gets overturned and the ban goes into effect.

                                The Brad

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • T taiwan_girl referenced this topic on 24 Aug 2024, 01:59
                                • jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nyc
                                  wrote on 4 Sept 2024, 22:52 last edited by jon-nyc 9 Apr 2024, 22:53
                                  #22

                                  Had drinks with my old Credit Suisse buddies last night. It got me thinking about this topic, because I like the way the banking industry handles it. The typical non-competes stops you from working for a competitor for 6 months.

                                  It seems to strike a good balance - it inhibits you from bringing leads from one employer to another, gives the ex-employer time to have new employees build relationships with your old clients, while not banning you from working in your own industry.

                                  The phrase they use is ‘gardening leave’. You get an offer from a new bank and quit your job, and have six months to tend to your garden.

                                  Thank you for your attention to this matter.

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