A Simple Solution
-
@George-K said in A Simple Solution:
What do they do that "works'?
I know what they don't do.
There's plenty of evidence that locking large numbers of people doesn't work, and yet it's obvious that's what should be done, because it's obvious, right?
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I know what they don't do.
That's not an answer. What works? What policies, laws should be changed?
There's plenty of evidence that locking large numbers of people doesn't work, and yet it's obvious that's what should be done, because it's obvious, right?
You repeat yourself. What should be changed? Just not lock them up?
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I know what they don't do.
That's not an answer. What works? What policies, laws should be changed?
There's plenty of evidence that locking large numbers of people doesn't work, and yet it's obvious that's what should be done, because it's obvious, right?
You repeat yourself. What should be changed? Just not lock them up?
@George-K said in A Simple Solution:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I know what they don't do.
That's not an answer. What works? What policies, laws should be changed?
There's plenty of evidence that locking large numbers of people doesn't work, and yet it's obvious that's what should be done, because it's obvious, right?
You repeat yourself. What should be changed? Just not lock them up?
I don't have an answer - my point was it would be worth taking a look elsewhere. I'm not suggesting Russia as a role model, incidentally.
If there was an easy solution, it would have been done, but it seems like what the US has been doing isn't working based on crime stats. I don't think the imprisonment rate is likely the reason for the crime, since the overall culture in some areas is very messed up, but locking lots of people up doesn't appear to be helping.
What I do know is if you keep doing the same thing expecting different results, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.
-
@George-K said in A Simple Solution:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I know what they don't do.
That's not an answer. What works? What policies, laws should be changed?
There's plenty of evidence that locking large numbers of people doesn't work, and yet it's obvious that's what should be done, because it's obvious, right?
You repeat yourself. What should be changed? Just not lock them up?
I don't have an answer - my point was it would be worth taking a look elsewhere. I'm not suggesting Russia as a role model, incidentally.
If there was an easy solution, it would have been done, but it seems like what the US has been doing isn't working based on crime stats. I don't think the imprisonment rate is likely the reason for the crime, since the overall culture in some areas is very messed up, but locking lots of people up doesn't appear to be helping.
What I do know is if you keep doing the same thing expecting different results, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
@George-K said in A Simple Solution:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I know what they don't do.
That's not an answer. What works? What policies, laws should be changed?
There's plenty of evidence that locking large numbers of people doesn't work, and yet it's obvious that's what should be done, because it's obvious, right?
You repeat yourself. What should be changed? Just not lock them up?
I don't have an answer - my point was it would be worth taking a look elsewhere. I'm not suggesting Russia as a role model, incidentally.
If there was an easy solution, it would have been done, but it seems like what the US has been doing isn't working based on crime stats. I don't think the imprisonment rate is likely the reason for the crime, since the overall culture in some areas is very messed up, but locking lots of people up doesn't appear to be helping.
What I do know is if you keep doing the same thing expecting different results, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.
You don't actually know that whatever law enforcement policies you would prefer, would lead to better crime statistics.
Education is extremely important.
-
@taiwan_girl said in A Simple Solution:
@George-K I agree that if there are goofy State Attorny's out there who play with the definition, then yes, it will change the data.
But I think that there are years of data that show that putting people in jail more often does not reduce crime. I think that we (the US) has the highest (or top 10 highest) jail rates in the world. If it was as simple as if jail worked, then the US should have the lowest crime.
I dont know what the answer is. Not putting people is jail is certainly not the answer either. I think a lot of it is cultural but how to change is difficult.
You know, there's one woman who may not agree with you...
Link to video@Jolly said in A Simple Solution:
You know, there's obe woman who may not agree with you...
Of course. One data point does not prove a theory.
(By the way, random comment. It appears that Mr. ORielly right ear had the top chopped off)
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
@George-K said in A Simple Solution:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I know what they don't do.
That's not an answer. What works? What policies, laws should be changed?
There's plenty of evidence that locking large numbers of people doesn't work, and yet it's obvious that's what should be done, because it's obvious, right?
You repeat yourself. What should be changed? Just not lock them up?
I don't have an answer - my point was it would be worth taking a look elsewhere. I'm not suggesting Russia as a role model, incidentally.
If there was an easy solution, it would have been done, but it seems like what the US has been doing isn't working based on crime stats. I don't think the imprisonment rate is likely the reason for the crime, since the overall culture in some areas is very messed up, but locking lots of people up doesn't appear to be helping.
What I do know is if you keep doing the same thing expecting different results, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.
You don't actually know that whatever law enforcement policies you would prefer, would lead to better crime statistics.
@Horace said in A Simple Solution:
You don't actually know that whatever law enforcement policies you would prefer, would lead to better crime statistics.
Neither does anybody else. But if you keep doing what you're doing, chances are you'll get much the same of what you've had.
-
@Horace said in A Simple Solution:
You don't actually know that whatever law enforcement policies you would prefer, would lead to better crime statistics.
Neither does anybody else. But if you keep doing what you're doing, chances are you'll get much the same of what you've had.
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
@Horace said in A Simple Solution:
You don't actually know that whatever law enforcement policies you would prefer, would lead to better crime statistics.
Neither does anybody else. But if you keep doing what you're doing, chances are you'll get much the same of what you've had.
This style of argumentation is a great force for stupidity, and is based on the hidden assumption that things can't get worse. In fact America is testing bail reform and reduced prosecution in many places, and people with your perspective are predictably being confronted with zero heart wrenching anecdotes of the damage dangerous people are doing after benefiting from the leniency.
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
@Horace said in A Simple Solution:
You don't actually know that whatever law enforcement policies you would prefer, would lead to better crime statistics.
Neither does anybody else. But if you keep doing what you're doing, chances are you'll get much the same of what you've had.
This style of argumentation is a great force for stupidity, and is based on the hidden assumption that things can't get worse. In fact America is testing bail reform and reduced prosecution in many places, and people with your perspective are predictably being confronted with zero heart wrenching anecdotes of the damage dangerous people are doing after benefiting from the leniency.
@Horace said in A Simple Solution:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
@Horace said in A Simple Solution:
You don't actually know that whatever law enforcement policies you would prefer, would lead to better crime statistics.
Neither does anybody else. But if you keep doing what you're doing, chances are you'll get much the same of what you've had.
This style of argumentation is a great force for stupidity, and is based on the hidden assumption that things can't get worse. In fact America is testing bail reform and reduced prosecution in many places, and people with your perspective are predictably being confronted with zero heart wrenching anecdotes of the damage dangerous people are doing after benefiting from the leniency.
OK, thanks for your input. But look at the graph for a moment and ask yourself how's this working out?
I've repeatedly been told that what separates the USA from the rest of the world is how much freedom we have here. I'm not sure I agree with that assertion.
Like I said, I don't really know about this stuff, but that graph is a little weird.
I was only joking
-
@Horace said in A Simple Solution:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
@Horace said in A Simple Solution:
You don't actually know that whatever law enforcement policies you would prefer, would lead to better crime statistics.
Neither does anybody else. But if you keep doing what you're doing, chances are you'll get much the same of what you've had.
This style of argumentation is a great force for stupidity, and is based on the hidden assumption that things can't get worse. In fact America is testing bail reform and reduced prosecution in many places, and people with your perspective are predictably being confronted with zero heart wrenching anecdotes of the damage dangerous people are doing after benefiting from the leniency.
OK, thanks for your input. But look at the graph for a moment and ask yourself how's this working out?
I've repeatedly been told that what separates the USA from the rest of the world is how much freedom we have here. I'm not sure I agree with that assertion.
Like I said, I don't really know about this stuff, but that graph is a little weird.
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I've repeatedly been told that what separates the USA from the rest of the world is how much freedom we have here. I'm not sure I agree with that assertion.
Well, we aren't as enlightened as, say, England and its Equality Act of 2010, or Scotland with its Hate Crime Act.
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I've repeatedly been told that what separates the USA from the rest of the world is how much freedom we have here. I'm not sure I agree with that assertion.
Well, we aren't as enlightened as, say, England and its Equality Act of 2010, or Scotland with its Hate Crime Act.
@Aqua-Letifer said in A Simple Solution:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I've repeatedly been told that what separates the USA from the rest of the world is how much freedom we have here. I'm not sure I agree with that assertion.
Well, we aren't as enlightened as, say, England and its Equality Act of 2010, or Scotland with its Hate Crime Act.
I'm certainly not going to defend that, and there's plenty wrong there too. It's fairly easy to find pretty egregious examples of over-reach for any country.
-
@Aqua-Letifer said in A Simple Solution:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I've repeatedly been told that what separates the USA from the rest of the world is how much freedom we have here. I'm not sure I agree with that assertion.
Well, we aren't as enlightened as, say, England and its Equality Act of 2010, or Scotland with its Hate Crime Act.
I'm certainly not going to defend that, and there's plenty wrong there too. It's fairly easy to find pretty egregious examples of over-reach for any country.
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
@Aqua-Letifer said in A Simple Solution:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I've repeatedly been told that what separates the USA from the rest of the world is how much freedom we have here. I'm not sure I agree with that assertion.
Well, we aren't as enlightened as, say, England and its Equality Act of 2010, or Scotland with its Hate Crime Act.
I'm certainly not going to defend that, and there's plenty wrong there too. It's fairly easy to find pretty egregious examples of over-reach for any country.
I agree with you about "freedoms" as interpreted here, and don't think we have the market cornered on it. But yeah, compared to other western countries, it's choose your lateral move.
-
Cleaning up a mess can have little to do with why things get messy in the first place.
To compare incarceration rates across countries and the effect on crime, you have to assume that populations are similar across countries.
I don't think that's the case. I think there are some people in this country that get a real crappy start in life. Much moreso than in other developed countries. That in turn makes them much more prone to criminal activity.
That's the primary driver of why crime happens.... prison rates are way downstream of that.
-
Cleaning up a mess can have little to do with why things get messy in the first place.
To compare incarceration rates across countries and the effect on crime, you have to assume that populations are similar across countries.
I don't think that's the case. I think there are some people in this country that get a real crappy start in life. Much moreso than in other developed countries. That in turn makes them much more prone to criminal activity.
That's the primary driver of why crime happens.... prison rates are way downstream of that.
@xenon said in A Simple Solution:
To compare incarceration rates across countries and the effect on crime, you have to assume that populations are similar across countries.
I don't think that's the case. I think there are some people in this country that get a real crappy start in life. Much moreso than in other developed countries. That in turn makes them much more prone to criminal activity.
That's the primary driver of why crime happens.... prison rates are way downstream of that.
Just wait until income inequality hits the inflection point. We might even be testing the waters with that right now.
-
Cleaning up a mess can have little to do with why things get messy in the first place.
To compare incarceration rates across countries and the effect on crime, you have to assume that populations are similar across countries.
I don't think that's the case. I think there are some people in this country that get a real crappy start in life. Much moreso than in other developed countries. That in turn makes them much more prone to criminal activity.
That's the primary driver of why crime happens.... prison rates are way downstream of that.
@xenon said in A Simple Solution:
To compare incarceration rates across countries and the effect on crime, you have to assume that populations are similar across countries.
There you got. Got it in one.
Any meaningful comparison has to compare the populations.
Would it be possible that the population in Denmark is just a wee bit more homogeneous than that in, say, Chicago?
-
@xenon said in A Simple Solution:
To compare incarceration rates across countries and the effect on crime, you have to assume that populations are similar across countries.
There you got. Got it in one.
Any meaningful comparison has to compare the populations.
Would it be possible that the population in Denmark is just a wee bit more homogeneous than that in, say, Chicago?
@George-K said in A Simple Solution:
Any meaningful comparison has to compare the populations.
Would it be possible that the population in Denmark is just a wee bit more homogeneous than that in, say, Chicago?
I've been told that London is a warzone filled with police no-go areas, and Birmingham is 100% Muslim
I know, you're right. It's apples and oranges. However, it's possible it's not just the populations that are different, but the attitude of the powers that be of how best to deal with the problem.
I don't think it's homogeneousness (is that a word?) so much as the culture - London is cosmopolitan, but doesn't have the same issues and gang crime, at least to anywhere near the same level.
