A Simple Solution
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Call me dumb but what is the answer?
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The answer is not to let people with a long rap sheet back out on the streets in an imitation of a revolving door on the jail or prison. Especially people with a history of violent felonies.
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The answer is not to let people with a long rap sheet back out on the streets in an imitation of a revolving door on the jail or prison. Especially people with a history of violent felonies.
@Jolly said in A Simple Solution:
The answer is not to let people with a long rap sheet back out on the streets in an imitation of a revolving door on the jail or prison. Especially people with a history of violent felonies.
Maybe that is a step, but not the answer. I believe we talked about this a bit before.
% of population in jail does not reduce crime rate.
I dont know much about jail, but I suppose to also is about whether jail should be punishment or rehabilitation. If it is punishment, sending someone back out of jail where they spent X years as punishment, probably he will do it again.
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@Jolly said in A Simple Solution:
The answer is not to let people with a long rap sheet back out on the streets in an imitation of a revolving door on the jail or prison. Especially people with a history of violent felonies.
Maybe that is a step, but not the answer. I believe we talked about this a bit before.
% of population in jail does not reduce crime rate.
I dont know much about jail, but I suppose to also is about whether jail should be punishment or rehabilitation. If it is punishment, sending someone back out of jail where they spent X years as punishment, probably he will do it again.
@taiwan_girl said in A Simple Solution:
% of population in jail does not reduce crime rate.
No, it doesn't.
But part of the question includes the definition.
In C(r )ook County we had a prolonged "counting" of the votes for the new States Attorney.
The previous States' Attorney, a woman named Kim Foxx, made it her policy to not prosecute shoplifting crimes if the value was less than $1000. The law required anything over $300 to be prosecuted.
Foxx said she would not seek reelection.
The election chose, by a margin of 1200 votes, a new States' Attorney who said she would prosecute according to the law, not according to ad hoc policy.
So my point is this: A shoplifter who steals $350 of stuff has committed a crime. S/he is not prosecuted, and therefore not jailed.
Has a crime been committed? Yes.
Has the perp been jailed? Nope.
If this person had been "removed" from society, would that reduce the crime rate?
It all depends on how you count it. According to Foxx, no crime was committed, because there was no prosecution.
Was a crime committed? That's obvious.
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@taiwan_girl said in A Simple Solution:
% of population in jail does not reduce crime rate.
No, it doesn't.
But part of the question includes the definition.
In C(r )ook County we had a prolonged "counting" of the votes for the new States Attorney.
The previous States' Attorney, a woman named Kim Foxx, made it her policy to not prosecute shoplifting crimes if the value was less than $1000. The law required anything over $300 to be prosecuted.
Foxx said she would not seek reelection.
The election chose, by a margin of 1200 votes, a new States' Attorney who said she would prosecute according to the law, not according to ad hoc policy.
So my point is this: A shoplifter who steals $350 of stuff has committed a crime. S/he is not prosecuted, and therefore not jailed.
Has a crime been committed? Yes.
Has the perp been jailed? Nope.
If this person had been "removed" from society, would that reduce the crime rate?
It all depends on how you count it. According to Foxx, no crime was committed, because there was no prosecution.
Was a crime committed? That's obvious.
@George-K I agree that if there are goofy State Attorny's out there who play with the definition, then yes, it will change the data.
But I think that there are years of data that show that putting people in jail more often does not reduce crime. I think that we (the US) has the highest (or top 10 highest) jail rates in the world. If it was as simple as if jail worked, then the US should have the lowest crime.
I dont know what the answer is. Not putting people is jail is certainly not the answer either. I think a lot of it is cultural but how to change is difficult.
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Maybe take a look at what other western countries with lower crime rates do?
Seems like there are options other than sticking folk in jail and letting them off completely.
I was only joking
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@George-K I agree that if there are goofy State Attorny's out there who play with the definition, then yes, it will change the data.
But I think that there are years of data that show that putting people in jail more often does not reduce crime. I think that we (the US) has the highest (or top 10 highest) jail rates in the world. If it was as simple as if jail worked, then the US should have the lowest crime.
I dont know what the answer is. Not putting people is jail is certainly not the answer either. I think a lot of it is cultural but how to change is difficult.
@taiwan_girl said in A Simple Solution:
@George-K I agree that if there are goofy State Attorny's out there who play with the definition, then yes, it will change the data.
But I think that there are years of data that show that putting people in jail more often does not reduce crime. I think that we (the US) has the highest (or top 10 highest) jail rates in the world. If it was as simple as if jail worked, then the US should have the lowest crime.
I dont know what the answer is. Not putting people is jail is certainly not the answer either. I think a lot of it is cultural but how to change is difficult.
You know, there's one woman who may not agree with you...
Link to video“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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Maybe take a look at what other western countries with lower crime rates do?
Seems like there are options other than sticking folk in jail and letting them off completely.
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
Maybe take a look at what other western countries with lower crime rates do?
OK.
What do they do that "works'?
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@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
Maybe take a look at what other western countries with lower crime rates do?
OK.
What do they do that "works'?
@George-K said in A Simple Solution:
What do they do that "works'?
I know what they don't do.
There's plenty of evidence that locking large numbers of people doesn't work, and yet it's obvious that's what should be done, because it's obvious, right?
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@George-K said in A Simple Solution:
What do they do that "works'?
I know what they don't do.
There's plenty of evidence that locking large numbers of people doesn't work, and yet it's obvious that's what should be done, because it's obvious, right?
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I know what they don't do.
That's not an answer. What works? What policies, laws should be changed?
There's plenty of evidence that locking large numbers of people doesn't work, and yet it's obvious that's what should be done, because it's obvious, right?
You repeat yourself. What should be changed? Just not lock them up?
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@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I know what they don't do.
That's not an answer. What works? What policies, laws should be changed?
There's plenty of evidence that locking large numbers of people doesn't work, and yet it's obvious that's what should be done, because it's obvious, right?
You repeat yourself. What should be changed? Just not lock them up?
@George-K said in A Simple Solution:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I know what they don't do.
That's not an answer. What works? What policies, laws should be changed?
There's plenty of evidence that locking large numbers of people doesn't work, and yet it's obvious that's what should be done, because it's obvious, right?
You repeat yourself. What should be changed? Just not lock them up?
I don't have an answer - my point was it would be worth taking a look elsewhere. I'm not suggesting Russia as a role model, incidentally.
If there was an easy solution, it would have been done, but it seems like what the US has been doing isn't working based on crime stats. I don't think the imprisonment rate is likely the reason for the crime, since the overall culture in some areas is very messed up, but locking lots of people up doesn't appear to be helping.
What I do know is if you keep doing the same thing expecting different results, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.
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@George-K said in A Simple Solution:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I know what they don't do.
That's not an answer. What works? What policies, laws should be changed?
There's plenty of evidence that locking large numbers of people doesn't work, and yet it's obvious that's what should be done, because it's obvious, right?
You repeat yourself. What should be changed? Just not lock them up?
I don't have an answer - my point was it would be worth taking a look elsewhere. I'm not suggesting Russia as a role model, incidentally.
If there was an easy solution, it would have been done, but it seems like what the US has been doing isn't working based on crime stats. I don't think the imprisonment rate is likely the reason for the crime, since the overall culture in some areas is very messed up, but locking lots of people up doesn't appear to be helping.
What I do know is if you keep doing the same thing expecting different results, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
@George-K said in A Simple Solution:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I know what they don't do.
That's not an answer. What works? What policies, laws should be changed?
There's plenty of evidence that locking large numbers of people doesn't work, and yet it's obvious that's what should be done, because it's obvious, right?
You repeat yourself. What should be changed? Just not lock them up?
I don't have an answer - my point was it would be worth taking a look elsewhere. I'm not suggesting Russia as a role model, incidentally.
If there was an easy solution, it would have been done, but it seems like what the US has been doing isn't working based on crime stats. I don't think the imprisonment rate is likely the reason for the crime, since the overall culture in some areas is very messed up, but locking lots of people up doesn't appear to be helping.
What I do know is if you keep doing the same thing expecting different results, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.
You don't actually know that whatever law enforcement policies you would prefer, would lead to better crime statistics.
Education is extremely important.
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@taiwan_girl said in A Simple Solution:
@George-K I agree that if there are goofy State Attorny's out there who play with the definition, then yes, it will change the data.
But I think that there are years of data that show that putting people in jail more often does not reduce crime. I think that we (the US) has the highest (or top 10 highest) jail rates in the world. If it was as simple as if jail worked, then the US should have the lowest crime.
I dont know what the answer is. Not putting people is jail is certainly not the answer either. I think a lot of it is cultural but how to change is difficult.
You know, there's one woman who may not agree with you...
Link to video@Jolly said in A Simple Solution:
You know, there's obe woman who may not agree with you...
Of course. One data point does not prove a theory.
(By the way, random comment. It appears that Mr. ORielly right ear had the top chopped off)
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@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
@George-K said in A Simple Solution:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I know what they don't do.
That's not an answer. What works? What policies, laws should be changed?
There's plenty of evidence that locking large numbers of people doesn't work, and yet it's obvious that's what should be done, because it's obvious, right?
You repeat yourself. What should be changed? Just not lock them up?
I don't have an answer - my point was it would be worth taking a look elsewhere. I'm not suggesting Russia as a role model, incidentally.
If there was an easy solution, it would have been done, but it seems like what the US has been doing isn't working based on crime stats. I don't think the imprisonment rate is likely the reason for the crime, since the overall culture in some areas is very messed up, but locking lots of people up doesn't appear to be helping.
What I do know is if you keep doing the same thing expecting different results, you're almost certainly going to be disappointed.
You don't actually know that whatever law enforcement policies you would prefer, would lead to better crime statistics.
@Horace said in A Simple Solution:
You don't actually know that whatever law enforcement policies you would prefer, would lead to better crime statistics.
Neither does anybody else. But if you keep doing what you're doing, chances are you'll get much the same of what you've had.
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@Horace said in A Simple Solution:
You don't actually know that whatever law enforcement policies you would prefer, would lead to better crime statistics.
Neither does anybody else. But if you keep doing what you're doing, chances are you'll get much the same of what you've had.
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
@Horace said in A Simple Solution:
You don't actually know that whatever law enforcement policies you would prefer, would lead to better crime statistics.
Neither does anybody else. But if you keep doing what you're doing, chances are you'll get much the same of what you've had.
This style of argumentation is a great force for stupidity, and is based on the hidden assumption that things can't get worse. In fact America is testing bail reform and reduced prosecution in many places, and people with your perspective are predictably being confronted with zero heart wrenching anecdotes of the damage dangerous people are doing after benefiting from the leniency.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
@Horace said in A Simple Solution:
You don't actually know that whatever law enforcement policies you would prefer, would lead to better crime statistics.
Neither does anybody else. But if you keep doing what you're doing, chances are you'll get much the same of what you've had.
This style of argumentation is a great force for stupidity, and is based on the hidden assumption that things can't get worse. In fact America is testing bail reform and reduced prosecution in many places, and people with your perspective are predictably being confronted with zero heart wrenching anecdotes of the damage dangerous people are doing after benefiting from the leniency.
@Horace said in A Simple Solution:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
@Horace said in A Simple Solution:
You don't actually know that whatever law enforcement policies you would prefer, would lead to better crime statistics.
Neither does anybody else. But if you keep doing what you're doing, chances are you'll get much the same of what you've had.
This style of argumentation is a great force for stupidity, and is based on the hidden assumption that things can't get worse. In fact America is testing bail reform and reduced prosecution in many places, and people with your perspective are predictably being confronted with zero heart wrenching anecdotes of the damage dangerous people are doing after benefiting from the leniency.
OK, thanks for your input. But look at the graph for a moment and ask yourself how's this working out?
I've repeatedly been told that what separates the USA from the rest of the world is how much freedom we have here. I'm not sure I agree with that assertion.
Like I said, I don't really know about this stuff, but that graph is a little weird.
I was only joking
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@Horace said in A Simple Solution:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
@Horace said in A Simple Solution:
You don't actually know that whatever law enforcement policies you would prefer, would lead to better crime statistics.
Neither does anybody else. But if you keep doing what you're doing, chances are you'll get much the same of what you've had.
This style of argumentation is a great force for stupidity, and is based on the hidden assumption that things can't get worse. In fact America is testing bail reform and reduced prosecution in many places, and people with your perspective are predictably being confronted with zero heart wrenching anecdotes of the damage dangerous people are doing after benefiting from the leniency.
OK, thanks for your input. But look at the graph for a moment and ask yourself how's this working out?
I've repeatedly been told that what separates the USA from the rest of the world is how much freedom we have here. I'm not sure I agree with that assertion.
Like I said, I don't really know about this stuff, but that graph is a little weird.
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I've repeatedly been told that what separates the USA from the rest of the world is how much freedom we have here. I'm not sure I agree with that assertion.
Well, we aren't as enlightened as, say, England and its Equality Act of 2010, or Scotland with its Hate Crime Act.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I've repeatedly been told that what separates the USA from the rest of the world is how much freedom we have here. I'm not sure I agree with that assertion.
Well, we aren't as enlightened as, say, England and its Equality Act of 2010, or Scotland with its Hate Crime Act.
@Aqua-Letifer said in A Simple Solution:
@Doctor-Phibes said in A Simple Solution:
I've repeatedly been told that what separates the USA from the rest of the world is how much freedom we have here. I'm not sure I agree with that assertion.
Well, we aren't as enlightened as, say, England and its Equality Act of 2010, or Scotland with its Hate Crime Act.
I'm certainly not going to defend that, and there's plenty wrong there too. It's fairly easy to find pretty egregious examples of over-reach for any country.
