The GOP shoots itself in the foot again
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@Mik said in The GOP shoots itself in the foot again:
That is an anti-Trump assumption. I suspect he'd be all for a bill that has what he wants.
That’s an assumption that I am willing to make. I suspect what he wants in an immigration bill is his name at the bottom and credit.
That doesn’t mean the bill is worth passing. The government has shown us that despite all conventional wisdom, something is not better than nothing. Quite often, in fact.
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https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/06/critics-slam-gop-over-border-deal-before-vote-00139840
Now even Fox News hosts are criticizing the GOP for their opposition to the border deal.
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“I had a popular commentator four weeks ago that I talked to that told me … 'If you try to move a bill that solves the border crisis during this presidential year, I will do whatever I can to destroy you.'”
NOTE: This was before the bill was even issued to the public and nobody in the public had read it yet.
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General Question: What is so bad about the bill that the GOP will not vote for it?
Here are the key changes included in the bill:
— New emergency authority to restrict border crossings if daily average migrant encounters reach 4,000 over a one-week span. If that metric is reached, the Homeland Security secretary could decide to largely bar migrants from seeking asylum if they crossed the border unlawfully.
If migrant crossings increase above 5,000 on average per day on a given week, DHS is required to use the authority. If encounters reach 8,500 in one day, the department is required to trigger the authority. But the federal government is limited in how long it can use the authority.
In the first year, the government can use it for 270 days, then 225 calendar days in the second year, and 180 days in the third year. The authority sunsets after three years.
— Codifies a policy that requires the government to process at least 1,400 asylum applications at ports of entry when the emergency authority is triggered.
— Raises the legal standard of proof to pass the initial screening for asylum, making it potentially more difficult for asylum seekers to pass.
— Expedites the asylum processing timeline from years to six months.
— Introduces a new process in which US Citizenship and Immigration Services would decide an asylum claim without it going through the immigration court system. The process doesn’t apply to unaccompanied migrant children.
— Preserves the president’s authority to designate humanitarian parole on a case-by-case basis. President Joe Biden has used the authority for Ukrainians, Afghans, Cubans, Venezuelans and Haitians, among other populations.
— Includes limited changes that narrow the use of parole at land borders.
— Authorizes 250,000 additional immigrant visas to spread out over five years for families and applies to employment-based immigrants.
— Provides a pathway to citizenship for Afghans paroled into the United States after the US’ withdrawal from Afghanistan and extends the special immigrant visa program for Afghans who worked for the US government.
Here is a summary of the monies in the bill
https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/national_security_and_border_act_summary.pdf
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General Question: What is so bad about the bill that the GOP will not vote for it?
Here are the key changes included in the bill:
— New emergency authority to restrict border crossings if daily average migrant encounters reach 4,000 over a one-week span. If that metric is reached, the Homeland Security secretary could decide to largely bar migrants from seeking asylum if they crossed the border unlawfully.
If migrant crossings increase above 5,000 on average per day on a given week, DHS is required to use the authority. If encounters reach 8,500 in one day, the department is required to trigger the authority. But the federal government is limited in how long it can use the authority.
In the first year, the government can use it for 270 days, then 225 calendar days in the second year, and 180 days in the third year. The authority sunsets after three years.
— Codifies a policy that requires the government to process at least 1,400 asylum applications at ports of entry when the emergency authority is triggered.
— Raises the legal standard of proof to pass the initial screening for asylum, making it potentially more difficult for asylum seekers to pass.
— Expedites the asylum processing timeline from years to six months.
— Introduces a new process in which US Citizenship and Immigration Services would decide an asylum claim without it going through the immigration court system. The process doesn’t apply to unaccompanied migrant children.
— Preserves the president’s authority to designate humanitarian parole on a case-by-case basis. President Joe Biden has used the authority for Ukrainians, Afghans, Cubans, Venezuelans and Haitians, among other populations.
— Includes limited changes that narrow the use of parole at land borders.
— Authorizes 250,000 additional immigrant visas to spread out over five years for families and applies to employment-based immigrants.
— Provides a pathway to citizenship for Afghans paroled into the United States after the US’ withdrawal from Afghanistan and extends the special immigrant visa program for Afghans who worked for the US government.
Here is a summary of the monies in the bill
https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/national_security_and_border_act_summary.pdf
@taiwan_girl said in The GOP shoots itself in the foot again:
What is so bad about the bill that the GOP will not vote for it?
Behind the paywall, so quoted in its entirety.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/02/no-to-the-border-deal/
he United States has a set of rules intended to exclude illegal immigrants from the country, and now Republicans find themselves negotiating over to what extent those rules can be ignored.
The group of senators that worked on a border deal with the White House for months has finally released the text of a bill that is touted as ending “catch and release” and mandating a “shutdown of the border” if illegal crossings exceed 5,000 a day.
President Joe Biden, who has done so much to create a de facto open border since the initial days of his administration, suddenly says this legislation is necessary so he can unleash his inner border hawk.
The bill is, to be sure, the best bipartisan immigration bill we’ve seen out of Washington, D.C., in decades, although that is an extremely low standard. The deal has worthy provisions, but it’s not going to compel Joe Biden to do anything he doesn’t want to and further entrenches a system that has been fundamentally distorted by mass bogus asylum claims.
The deal appears to be unraveling and deserves to do so.
The headline provision in the deal gives the president Title 42–type authority to exclude illegal aliens once there are an average of more than 4,000 illegal crossings a day over seven days and mandates that he does so once there are an average of 5,000 over seven days, or 8,500 on a single day. But, under current law, the president is already supposed to be excluding illegal immigrants.
There is a limit to how many days the president can use this authority, and the number of days steadily declines each year until it expires after the third. This is clearly an insurance policy against Donald Trump making full use of the authority should he be elected again.
The emergency authority would deactivate when the border crossings drop to 75 percent of the triggering number. This raises the possibility of Rube Goldberg–style, on-again-off-again border closures, when, again, the border is already supposed to be closed to illegal immigrants. Even during a closure, at least 1,400 migrants are to be processed each day at ports of entry, ensuring that the flow of asylum seekers continues regardless.
The deal seeks to toughen the “credible fear” standard that has been loosely applied to wave illegal immigrants en masse into the country. This would be a welcome change, but the bill creates a new process that bypasses the immigration courts and relies on notoriously open-handed asylum officers to make asylum determinations. It also dangles the prospect of expedited work permits, adding to the incentive for illegal immigrants to come here. The new asylum process is supposed to run much more quickly than the current system, but there’s every reason to believe it, too, will soon be overwhelmed.
The deal’s supposed end to “catch and release” doesn’t live up to its billing, since it gives the Homeland Security secretary the authority to send migrants to “Provisional Noncustodial Removal Proceedings” — in other words, to release them — if they express a fear of persecution or request asylum.
Moreover, the bill is careful to preserve the loophole for so-called unaccompanied minors that started the Biden border crisis in the first place and preserves Biden’s parole program for Cubans, Haitians, Venezuelans, and Nicaraguans.
As long as our immigration system is in thrall to the fiction that migrants who are overwhelmingly coming here for jobs are really asylum seekers, and ties itself up in knots considering these largely meritless claims, we are going to have trouble establishing order at the border. As Donald Trump showed in the latter part of his first term, controlling the border requires excluding the migrants from the U.S. in the first place. Then, barring extraordinary circumstances, anyone making it through the cracks should be detained and removed (the additional resources in the deal for these purposes are a good thing).
The cause of border security would be advanced much further if Congress dispensed with most of this bill and just created a Title 42–style authority that isn’t triggered or limited in any way. Prohibiting illegal immigrants from entering the country is the best tool against illegal immigration. As Ronald Reagan said, there are no easy answers, but there are simple ones.
Beyond that, the (P )resident already has the authority to end the crisis. Is it just a coincidence that this occurred within weeks of his inauguration and executive orders?
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General Question: What is so bad about the bill that the GOP will not vote for it?
Here are the key changes included in the bill:
— New emergency authority to restrict border crossings if daily average migrant encounters reach 4,000 over a one-week span. If that metric is reached, the Homeland Security secretary could decide to largely bar migrants from seeking asylum if they crossed the border unlawfully.
If migrant crossings increase above 5,000 on average per day on a given week, DHS is required to use the authority. If encounters reach 8,500 in one day, the department is required to trigger the authority. But the federal government is limited in how long it can use the authority.
In the first year, the government can use it for 270 days, then 225 calendar days in the second year, and 180 days in the third year. The authority sunsets after three years.
— Codifies a policy that requires the government to process at least 1,400 asylum applications at ports of entry when the emergency authority is triggered.
— Raises the legal standard of proof to pass the initial screening for asylum, making it potentially more difficult for asylum seekers to pass.
— Expedites the asylum processing timeline from years to six months.
— Introduces a new process in which US Citizenship and Immigration Services would decide an asylum claim without it going through the immigration court system. The process doesn’t apply to unaccompanied migrant children.
— Preserves the president’s authority to designate humanitarian parole on a case-by-case basis. President Joe Biden has used the authority for Ukrainians, Afghans, Cubans, Venezuelans and Haitians, among other populations.
— Includes limited changes that narrow the use of parole at land borders.
— Authorizes 250,000 additional immigrant visas to spread out over five years for families and applies to employment-based immigrants.
— Provides a pathway to citizenship for Afghans paroled into the United States after the US’ withdrawal from Afghanistan and extends the special immigrant visa program for Afghans who worked for the US government.
Here is a summary of the monies in the bill
https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/national_security_and_border_act_summary.pdf
@taiwan_girl said in The GOP shoots itself in the foot again:
General Question: What is so bad about the bill that the GOP will not vote for it?
Here are the key changes included in the bill:
— New emergency authority to restrict border crossings if daily average migrant encounters reach 4,000 over a one-week span. If that metric is reached, the Homeland Security secretary could decide to largely bar migrants from seeking asylum if they crossed the border unlawfully.
If migrant crossings increase above 5,000 on average per day on a given week, DHS is required to use the authority. If encounters reach 8,500 in one day, the department is required to trigger the authority. But the federal government is limited in how long it can use the authority.
In the first year, the government can use it for 270 days, then 225 calendar days in the second year, and 180 days in the third year. The authority sunsets after three years.
— Codifies a policy that requires the government to process at least 1,400 asylum applications at ports of entry when the emergency authority is triggered.
— Raises the legal standard of proof to pass the initial screening for asylum, making it potentially more difficult for asylum seekers to pass.
— Expedites the asylum processing timeline from years to six months.
— Introduces a new process in which US Citizenship and Immigration Services would decide an asylum claim without it going through the immigration court system. The process doesn’t apply to unaccompanied migrant children.
— Preserves the president’s authority to designate humanitarian parole on a case-by-case basis. President Joe Biden has used the authority for Ukrainians, Afghans, Cubans, Venezuelans and Haitians, among other populations.
— Includes limited changes that narrow the use of parole at land borders.
— Authorizes 250,000 additional immigrant visas to spread out over five years for families and applies to employment-based immigrants.
— Provides a pathway to citizenship for Afghans paroled into the United States after the US’ withdrawal from Afghanistan and extends the special immigrant visa program for Afghans who worked for the US government.
Here is a summary of the monies in the bill
https://www.appropriations.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/national_security_and_border_act_summary.pdf
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4000? Already unacceptable. 1 by all rights and measures should be the declared unacceptable. 4000 is absurdly ridiculous.
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5000?! Worse than 4000. Unacceptable.
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Government can use it 270 days a year? Then 225? Fuck that… laws aren’t laws for only certain days.
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requires the country to approve appplications that they couldn’t before? Seriously? In what bizarre demented world does that sound secure?
You know what? I disagree with each and every single point that you posted.
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For good or bad, politics is the art of compromise. In 2024, President Biden (or his replacement) will be elected. Even if both Congress and Senate go to the Republicans (and that is not a sure thing), what are the chances of a bill that the Republicans 100% want will get passed?
As @George-K said in The GOP shoots itself in the foot again:
The bill is, to be sure, the best bipartisan immigration bill we’ve seen out of Washington, D.C., in decades,
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Correct me if I misunderstand.
One of the things that the Republicans in the Congress did not like about the original bill was that there were border and aid both in the bill. And they wanted it separate.
Now, a bill with only aid for Isreal, Ukraine, and Taiwan has been passed by the Senate. And yet. Rep Johnson says that he will not even bring it for a vote. Why is that?
I think the Republicans do not have to think why the 2024 elections results will not be so good for them.
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Correct me if I misunderstand.
One of the things that the Republicans in the Congress did not like about the original bill was that there were border and aid both in the bill. And they wanted it separate.
Now, a bill with only aid for Isreal, Ukraine, and Taiwan has been passed by the Senate. And yet. Rep Johnson says that he will not even bring it for a vote. Why is that?
I think the Republicans do not have to think why the 2024 elections results will not be so good for them.
@taiwan_girl said in The GOP shoots itself in the foot again:
Now, a bill with only aid for Isreal, Ukraine, and Taiwan has been passed by the Senate.
I might be wrong, but aren't those all together?
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@taiwan_girl said in The GOP shoots itself in the foot again:
Now, a bill with only aid for Isreal, Ukraine, and Taiwan has been passed by the Senate.
I might be wrong, but aren't those all together?
@George-K said in The GOP shoots itself in the foot again:
@taiwan_girl said in The GOP shoots itself in the foot again:
Now, a bill with only aid for Isreal, Ukraine, and Taiwan has been passed by the Senate.
I might be wrong, but aren't those all together?
Yes, it is a total aid bill. X$ for Isreal, X$ for Ukraine, and X$ for Taiwan.
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@George-K said in The GOP shoots itself in the foot again:
@taiwan_girl said in The GOP shoots itself in the foot again:
Now, a bill with only aid for Isreal, Ukraine, and Taiwan has been passed by the Senate.
I might be wrong, but aren't those all together?
Yes, it is a total aid bill. X$ for Isreal, X$ for Ukraine, and X$ for Taiwan.
@taiwan_girl said in The GOP shoots itself in the foot again:
Yes, it is a total aid bill. X$ for Isreal, X$ for Ukraine, and X$ for Taiwan.
And that's the problem. Without getting into how I feel about aid for any individual country, the idea of making it "all or nothing" is stupid.
Yeah, I get the idea of compromise, but to say, "I won't support the bill unless it ALSO includes this stuff" is stupid.
Wanna support Israel? Fine.
Wanna support Taiwan? Fine.
Wanna support Ukraine? Fine.Now, how much for each - and don't conflate them.
This is a symptom of a much larger disease in Congress where you can't get "A" without supporting "B." It's beyond compromise - it's extortion.
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I understand what you are saying, but for this bill, I am guessing that if you are/against aid for X country (of the three listed), you are probably for aid for the others.
There are I am sure many foregn aid bills. Do they vote separately on aid to Botswana or is it part of a general aid bill? Even with in aid bills, there are hundreds of separate categories where the aid is going. I am in favor of aid to fight malaria in Botswana, but not cholera. Separate them. (Just joking, but here the Republics ask for something - they get it, but then that is not good enough and there is another excuse.)
Anyways, let let the congressmen vote on it. Not allowing to be voted on is maybe worse than Speaker Johnson wanting to separate them.
At this point, even if the bill was separated into three bills, I am sure that there would be some sort of excuse not to vote on them either.
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I think this is the definition of "irony"
The Biden administration’s proposed plan to use executive authority to limit asylum seekers at the southern border has already drawn heavy criticism from congressional Republicans, many of whom spent months pushing Biden to use his presidential powers to reinstate similar Trump-era policies.
The Biden administration has not officially announced the new measures, but House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) has already denounced the proposed order,
(He must be phycsic, as he knows its bad even before he has seen it. 555)
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You think there are secrets in Washington?
Silly girl...
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@Jolly I dont but then there are cases when a bill comes for a vote, and one side or the other complains that they haven't seen it, etc. etc.
I guess politics as usual. 555
