Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs
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This is something I have advocated for many years.
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The feds have long had a KSA focus, like this:
https://www.fsa.usda.gov/Internet/FSA_File/ksa.pdf
Some jobs require a college degree. Some require advanced degrees. But for everyday jobs, in both government and private sectors, we've gone nuts. Nobody needs a college degree to sell cars.
But...While not requiring a college degree for many jobs, I do think we need to have a gateway of a high school degree, especially at the entry level. And not just an attendance certificate, but an honest-to-God high school diploma. Something that tells me this entry level job applicant is trainable.
Which brings up another pet peeve of mine...At one time, industry trained people for jobs. Companies might have welding schools, machinist schools, etc. Or, they might contract with a local vo-tech to teach needed skills. Now a company expects an 18 year-old kid with no experience to get experience before hiring him...But how can he get experience when no one will hire him and train him or train him on the job?
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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The feds have long had a KSA focus, like this:
https://www.fsa.usda.gov/Internet/FSA_File/ksa.pdf
Some jobs require a college degree. Some require advanced degrees. But for everyday jobs, in both government and private sectors, we've gone nuts. Nobody needs a college degree to sell cars.
But...While not requiring a college degree for many jobs, I do think we need to have a gateway of a high school degree, especially at the entry level. And not just an attendance certificate, but an honest-to-God high school diploma. Something that tells me this entry level job applicant is trainable.
Which brings up another pet peeve of mine...At one time, industry trained people for jobs. Companies might have welding schools, machinist schools, etc. Or, they might contract with a local vo-tech to teach needed skills. Now a company expects an 18 year-old kid with no experience to get experience before hiring him...But how can he get experience when no one will hire him and train him or train him on the job?
@Jolly said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
.While not requiring a college degree for many jobs, I do think we need to have a gateway of a high school degree, especially at the entry level.
Agreed, but there has to be some kind of method for discriminating the capable vs the, for lack of a better word, stupid.
A former partner of mine was taking calculus in college. A student in the class asked, "I'm planning on going to medical school. Why should I bother with the stuff in your class? I'm never going to use it."
The prof replied, "My class saves lives. It keeps the stupid people out of medical school."
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@Jolly said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
.While not requiring a college degree for many jobs, I do think we need to have a gateway of a high school degree, especially at the entry level.
Agreed, but there has to be some kind of method for discriminating the capable vs the, for lack of a better word, stupid.
A former partner of mine was taking calculus in college. A student in the class asked, "I'm planning on going to medical school. Why should I bother with the stuff in your class? I'm never going to use it."
The prof replied, "My class saves lives. It keeps the stupid people out of medical school."
@George-K said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
@Jolly said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
.While not requiring a college degree for many jobs, I do think we need to have a gateway of a high school degree, especially at the entry level.
Agreed, but there has to be some kind of method for discriminating the capable vs the, for lack of a better word, stupid.
A former partner of mine was taking calculus in college. A student in the class asked, "I'm planning on going to medical school. Why should I bother with the stuff in your class? I'm never going to use it."
The prof replied, "My class saves lives. It keeps the stupid people out of medical school."
Bounce one off of you...What difference do you see in the OR between a good scrub tech and a RN?
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@George-K said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
@Jolly said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
.While not requiring a college degree for many jobs, I do think we need to have a gateway of a high school degree, especially at the entry level.
Agreed, but there has to be some kind of method for discriminating the capable vs the, for lack of a better word, stupid.
A former partner of mine was taking calculus in college. A student in the class asked, "I'm planning on going to medical school. Why should I bother with the stuff in your class? I'm never going to use it."
The prof replied, "My class saves lives. It keeps the stupid people out of medical school."
Bounce one off of you...What difference do you see in the OR between a good scrub tech and a RN?
@Jolly said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
Bounce one off of you...What difference do you see in the OR between a good scrub tech and a RN?
None. I always thought the idea of having a RN pass instruments was stupid. Let nurses take care of patients, not be waiters for a surgeon.
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@Jolly said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
Bounce one off of you...What difference do you see in the OR between a good scrub tech and a RN?
None. I always thought the idea of having a RN pass instruments was stupid. Let nurses take care of patients, not be waiters for a surgeon.
@George-K said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
@Jolly said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
Bounce one off of you...What difference do you see in the OR between a good scrub tech and a RN?
None. I always thought the idea of having a RN pass instruments was stupid. Let nurses take care of patients, not be waiters for a surgeon.
Thank you. The wife was an ophthalmic tech, but scrubbed for a good many surgeries with multiple eye docs, including one where they couldn't let the rat fall in the sterile field (but that's another story). Nobody complained.
I don't have a problem with LPN's (or LVN, if you prefer) starting IV's. Might want to draw the line at meds, but a saline lock or a saline drip? Sticking and inserting a Jelco is a manual skill, not really teachable from a computer screen. Why not let the LPN do it?
Why do we insist on paying top dollar in medicine for jobs that do not require a certain level of education.
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
-
The feds have long had a KSA focus, like this:
https://www.fsa.usda.gov/Internet/FSA_File/ksa.pdf
Some jobs require a college degree. Some require advanced degrees. But for everyday jobs, in both government and private sectors, we've gone nuts. Nobody needs a college degree to sell cars.
But...While not requiring a college degree for many jobs, I do think we need to have a gateway of a high school degree, especially at the entry level. And not just an attendance certificate, but an honest-to-God high school diploma. Something that tells me this entry level job applicant is trainable.
Which brings up another pet peeve of mine...At one time, industry trained people for jobs. Companies might have welding schools, machinist schools, etc. Or, they might contract with a local vo-tech to teach needed skills. Now a company expects an 18 year-old kid with no experience to get experience before hiring him...But how can he get experience when no one will hire him and train him or train him on the job?
@Jolly said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
At one time, industry trained people for jobs.
Just down the street from here.
The Apprentice School at Newport News Shipbuilding was founded in 1919 and is the preeminent apprenticeship program in the nation. The school offers four-, five-, and eight-year apprenticeships in nineteen shipbuilding disciplines and eight advanced programs of study.
Relationship to Newport News Shipbuilding
Because of the unique nature of apprenticeship, The Apprentice School and its leadership are structured within Newport News Shipbuilding, a division of Huntington Ingalls Industries. HII is a global engineering and defense technologies provider. The Apprentice School provides quality training and education for Newport News Shipbuilding.
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@George-K said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
@Jolly said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
Bounce one off of you...What difference do you see in the OR between a good scrub tech and a RN?
None. I always thought the idea of having a RN pass instruments was stupid. Let nurses take care of patients, not be waiters for a surgeon.
Thank you. The wife was an ophthalmic tech, but scrubbed for a good many surgeries with multiple eye docs, including one where they couldn't let the rat fall in the sterile field (but that's another story). Nobody complained.
I don't have a problem with LPN's (or LVN, if you prefer) starting IV's. Might want to draw the line at meds, but a saline lock or a saline drip? Sticking and inserting a Jelco is a manual skill, not really teachable from a computer screen. Why not let the LPN do it?
Why do we insist on paying top dollar in medicine for jobs that do not require a certain level of education.
@Jolly said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
Sticking and inserting a Jelco is a manual skill, not really teachable from a computer screen. Why not let the LPN do it?
How many phlebotomists are RNs, or LPNs?
I'd guess the number approaches zero.
Manual skill is exactly right. It's like putting in an endotracheal tube. Anyone can learn how to do it. The question is when to do it, and what to do afterward.
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@Jolly said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
Sticking and inserting a Jelco is a manual skill, not really teachable from a computer screen. Why not let the LPN do it?
How many phlebotomists are RNs, or LPNs?
I'd guess the number approaches zero.
Manual skill is exactly right. It's like putting in an endotracheal tube. Anyone can learn how to do it. The question is when to do it, and what to do afterward.
@George-K said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
@Jolly said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
Sticking and inserting a Jelco is a manual skill, not really teachable from a computer screen. Why not let the LPN do it?
How many phlebotomists are RNs, or LPNs?
I'd guess the number approaches zero.
Manual skill is exactly right. It's like putting in an endotracheal tube. Anyone can learn how to do it. The question is when to do it, and what to do afterward.
THE only one I ever knew was at a hospital where she was responsible for the phlebotomy crew AND did an occasional apheresis for some folks we had that had rare blood types (they had a family of Bombay blood types in the area).
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Guess the average college IQ...
https://www.joannejacobs.com/post/college-students-aren-t-all-that-smart-iq-average-falls-to-102
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
-
Guess the average college IQ...
https://www.joannejacobs.com/post/college-students-aren-t-all-that-smart-iq-average-falls-to-102
@Jolly said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
Guess the average college IQ...
https://www.joannejacobs.com/post/college-students-aren-t-all-that-smart-iq-average-falls-to-102
Now do the demographics.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@Jolly said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
Guess the average college IQ...
https://www.joannejacobs.com/post/college-students-aren-t-all-that-smart-iq-average-falls-to-102
Now do the demographics.
@George-K said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
@Jolly said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
Guess the average college IQ...
https://www.joannejacobs.com/post/college-students-aren-t-all-that-smart-iq-average-falls-to-102
Now do the demographics.
Ain't going there, O Bell Curvian...
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@George-K said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
@Jolly said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
Guess the average college IQ...
https://www.joannejacobs.com/post/college-students-aren-t-all-that-smart-iq-average-falls-to-102
Now do the demographics.
Ain't going there, O Bell Curvian...
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In 2017, Education Testing Service "experts" estimated that physics (133), math (130), philosophy (129) and materials science (129) majors have the highest IQs. (I assume they're extrapolating from SAT scores.) I was an English major (120). Education majors average 110.
Not sure why she felt the need to put the "experts" in inverted comma's. Maybe she's upset because she's an English Major (120). Speaking as a joint-honours graduate in maths and physics, I wholeheartedly support these findings. My only question is whether my IQ is likely to be the mean or the sum of 133 and 130.
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In 2017, Education Testing Service "experts" estimated that physics (133), math (130), philosophy (129) and materials science (129) majors have the highest IQs. (I assume they're extrapolating from SAT scores.) I was an English major (120). Education majors average 110.
Not sure why she felt the need to put the "experts" in inverted comma's. Maybe she's upset because she's an English Major (120). Speaking as a joint-honours graduate in maths and physics, I wholeheartedly support these findings. My only question is whether my IQ is likely to be the mean or the sum of 133 and 130.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Massachusetts axes degree requirement for state jobs:
in inverted comma's
Not an English major, I see...LOL.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
