Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse

The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Puzzle time - prisoners and hats

Puzzle time - prisoners and hats

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
18 Posts 6 Posters 199 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • jon-nycJ Offline
    jon-nycJ Offline
    jon-nyc
    wrote on last edited by
    #3

    Possibly, but I think there are a lot of puzzles of this type.

    Only non-witches get due process.

    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
    KlausK 1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

      Three prisoners are told that at midnight, in the dark, each will be fitted with a red or blue hat according to a fair coin flip. The lights will then briefly be turned on, enabling each prisoner to see every other prisoner's hat color. Once the lights are on, however, the prisoners will have no opportunity to signal to one another or to communicate in any way.

      Each prisoner will then be taken aside and given the option of trying to guess whether his or her own hat is red or blue, but he or she may choose to pass. All three prisoners will be freed if (1) at least one prisoner chooses to guess his or her hat color, and (2) every prisoner who chooses to guess guesses correctly.

      The prisoners have a chance to devise a strategy before the game begins. Can they achieve a winning probability greater than 50%?

      Doctor PhibesD Offline
      Doctor PhibesD Offline
      Doctor Phibes
      wrote on last edited by
      #4

      @jon-nyc said in Puzzle time - prisoners and hats:

      The prisoners have a chance to devise a strategy before the game begins. Can they achieve a winning probability greater than 50%?

      The crux of this problem is really the question of what type of prisoners they are. If they are highly educated political prisoners currently serving time for example in a Chinese prison due to their resistance to the measures being undertaken against democracy in Hong Kong, then yes, I would say that there is a better than 50% chance that they will be able to devise a strategy.

      If they are the more typical type of prisoner serving time for robbing liquor stores or attempting to sell drugs to schoolchildren, then I would put their chances of coming up with a winning strategy at about 1%.

      Of course, the point is moot, since the chances of the Chinese prison authorities giving them stupid hats on the basis of a coin flip are remote at best.

      I was only joking

      1 Reply Last reply
      • KlausK Offline
        KlausK Offline
        Klaus
        wrote on last edited by
        #5

        That puzzle sounds familiar. Didn't we have that in the past?

        1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by
          #6

          I don't think so. There are a number of 'prisoner hat' problems.

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

            Possibly, but I think there are a lot of puzzles of this type.

            KlausK Offline
            KlausK Offline
            Klaus
            wrote on last edited by
            #7

            @jon-nyc said in Puzzle time - prisoners and hats:

            Possibly, but I think there are a lot of puzzles of this type.

            Such as these.

            Give me some more time. I know there are many "color of your hat" puzzles, but I'm pretty sure I've also seen one involving probabilities in the past. Maybe not exactly that one.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • KlausK Offline
              KlausK Offline
              Klaus
              wrote on last edited by
              #8

              I think I now remember where I saw the puzzle.

              There's a mathematician who publishes such puzzles on a regular basis, Peter Winkler. He has a monthly column in the "Communications of the ACM", of which I'm a subscriber. I believe I saw that puzzle there. If I think about the puzzle more, I may remember parts of the solution, so I guess I better just keep my mouth shut.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • HoraceH Online
                HoraceH Online
                Horace
                wrote on last edited by
                #9

                I guess the set of rules would attempt to clump wrong guesses together while right guesses would tend to be alone. The rules would also want to ensure that at least one person guessed.

                Education is extremely important.

                HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                • MikM Offline
                  MikM Offline
                  Mik
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #10

                  If they were that smart they wouldn't be prisoners, now would they?

                  “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • HoraceH Online
                    HoraceH Online
                    Horace
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #11

                    Tell that to Stalin and his pogroms against intellectuals.

                    Education is extremely important.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • HoraceH Horace

                      I guess the set of rules would attempt to clump wrong guesses together while right guesses would tend to be alone. The rules would also want to ensure that at least one person guessed.

                      HoraceH Online
                      HoraceH Online
                      Horace
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #12

                      @Horace said in Puzzle time - prisoners and hats:

                      I guess the set of rules would attempt to clump wrong guesses together while right guesses would tend to be alone. The rules would also want to ensure that at least one person guessed.

                      So, is the answer that simple? Those who see two different colors would not vote. If the other two people are same, guess opposite? This will cause any configuration of colors other than all-same to be a win (one correct vote), while all-same would be a loss (3 wrong votes).

                      Education is extremely important.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • KlausK Offline
                        KlausK Offline
                        Klaus
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #13
                        1. Do the prisoners know (or can determine) the order in which they are asked?
                        2. Can the prisoners hear all the answers?
                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • KlausK Offline
                          KlausK Offline
                          Klaus
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #14

                          Oh, I think I now remember the key to the solution. The probability can be raised to 75%.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • HoraceH Online
                            HoraceH Online
                            Horace
                            wrote on last edited by Horace
                            #15

                            Yes that is the % of my proposed solution. I got there by figuring that each guess would be 50/50 so the rules would have to clump wrong guesses together and single out right ones. One such set of rules leaves 75% of color combinations yielding one right guess.

                            Education is extremely important.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • jon-nycJ Offline
                              jon-nycJ Offline
                              jon-nyc
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #16

                              I got the same answer as Horace.

                              Official answer comes out Saturday but I cant see them improving on 75%.

                              Only non-witches get due process.

                              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                              1 Reply Last reply
                              • KlausK Offline
                                KlausK Offline
                                Klaus
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #17

                                It gets interesting if you generalize the number of prisoners and/or the number of colors.

                                https://arxiv.org/abs/cs/0509045

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ Offline
                                  jon-nycJ Offline
                                  jon-nyc
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #18

                                  Oh man, you ruined the bonus round. 😉

                                  Only non-witches get due process.

                                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  Reply
                                  • Reply as topic
                                  Log in to reply
                                  • Oldest to Newest
                                  • Newest to Oldest
                                  • Most Votes


                                  • Login

                                  • Don't have an account? Register

                                  • Login or register to search.
                                  • First post
                                    Last post
                                  0
                                  • Categories
                                  • Recent
                                  • Tags
                                  • Popular
                                  • Users
                                  • Groups