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  3. Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness

Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness

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  • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

    Yes you have. You are quite good at recognizing the shortcomings of the outgroup.

    HoraceH Offline
    HoraceH Offline
    Horace
    wrote on last edited by
    #45

    @jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

    Yes you have. You are quite good at recognizing the shortcomings of the outgroup.

    Thanks jon. And you're good at seeming like the sort of person who doesn't take sides.

    Education is extremely important.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • Catseye3C Catseye3

      Moving on down in the article, in any discussion, Sullivan writes, "An oppressed person’s word is always the last one."

      Is that because the other is struck dumb by the surreal stupidity with which he is confronted? He stands there, mouth agape, with nothing to say, while the SJW struts off, satisfied at having silenced another disgusting heteronormal.

      HoraceH Offline
      HoraceH Offline
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by
      #46

      @Catseye3 said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

      Moving on down in the article, in any discussion, Sullivan writes, "An oppressed person’s word is always the last one."

      Is that because the other is struck dumb by the surreal stupidity with which he is confronted?

      No, that's because of the weaponized cancellation of anybody who questions whether oppression grants ultimate authority in cultural/political discussions.

      Education is extremely important.

      Catseye3C 1 Reply Last reply
      • Catseye3C Catseye3

        I've been snooting this article, not wishing to know nuttin' about no roots of wokeness (the flowering of it is hideous enough), but I finally decided that since Jon is not in the habit of posting useless bullshit, I'd better give it a look-see.

        The Pluckrose etc book theorizes that "The entire concept of reason—whether the Enlightenment version or even the ancient Socratic understanding—is a myth designed to serve the interests of those in power, and therefore deserves to be undermined and 'problematized’ whenever possible."

        This comes as close to philosophical obscenity as is possible to get. Not to mention that people who actually utilize a ghastly non-word like 'problematized' deserve to go before a firing squad.

        Not even to be offered a last pre-fusillade cigarette, either. I know, this is harsh, but there are sins of usage too appalling to be permitted and must be stamped out without mercy. They scorch the eye and horrify the brain. They cross far over a line which may not be crossed in even a semi-literate society.

        Rats, I seem to have digressed somewhat from the article. Though I hardly ever do that, I think I'll stop here and go back and finish reading, with thanks to Jon. Loving Andrew Sullivan. Is he married, do you know? Asking for a friend.

        I like this, too: "Most normal people have never heard of this [critical] theory . . . that is nonetheless changing the very words we speak and write and the very rationale of the institutions integral to liberal democracy." (Italics mine.)

        Doctor PhibesD Offline
        Doctor PhibesD Offline
        Doctor Phibes
        wrote on last edited by
        #47

        @Catseye3 said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

        Rats, I seem to have digressed somewhat from the article. Though I hardly ever do that, I think I'll stop here and go back and finish reading, with thanks to Jon. Loving Andrew Sullivan. Is he married, do you know? Asking for a friend.

        He is, and he's gay. And English. One out of three ain't bad 😬

        I was only joking

        Catseye3C 1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
          #48

          @Horace

          Except not. If you criticize and make fun of both Trumpism and wokeness you don’t make too many friends. Look at some of my threads next door criticizing wokeness -you can practically hear people sputter and point. And here, look at the grief I get from you for refusing that orange pill.

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          HoraceH Doctor PhibesD 2 Replies Last reply
          • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

            @Catseye3 said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

            Rats, I seem to have digressed somewhat from the article. Though I hardly ever do that, I think I'll stop here and go back and finish reading, with thanks to Jon. Loving Andrew Sullivan. Is he married, do you know? Asking for a friend.

            He is, and he's gay. And English. One out of three ain't bad 😬

            Catseye3C Offline
            Catseye3C Offline
            Catseye3
            wrote on last edited by Catseye3
            #49

            @Doctor-Phibes said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

            He is, and he's gay.

            Oh, boogersnot.

            Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

              @Horace

              Except not. If you criticize and make fun of both Trumpism and wokeness you don’t make too many friends. Look at some of my threads next door criticizing wokeness -you can practically hear people sputter and point. And here, look at the grief I get from you for refusing that orange pill.

              HoraceH Offline
              HoraceH Offline
              Horace
              wrote on last edited by
              #50

              @jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

              @Horace

              Except not. If you criticize and make fun of both Trumpism and wokeness you don’t make too many friends. Look at some of my threads next door criticizing wokeness -you can practically hear people sputter and point. And here, look at the grief I get from you for refusing that orange pill.

              I think the word Trumpism is a convenient one used to integrate anybody who prefers Trump to his current political opposition, with Trump himself. Wokeness on the other hand is a blatant large-scale cultural movement, permeating every aspect of this culture we all have to exist in.

              Education is extremely important.

              L 1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                @Horace

                Except not. If you criticize and make fun of both Trumpism and wokeness you don’t make too many friends. Look at some of my threads next door criticizing wokeness -you can practically hear people sputter and point. And here, look at the grief I get from you for refusing that orange pill.

                Doctor PhibesD Offline
                Doctor PhibesD Offline
                Doctor Phibes
                wrote on last edited by
                #51

                @jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                @Horace

                Except not. If you criticize and make fun of both Trumpism and wokeness you don’t make too many friends. Look at some of my threads next door criticizing wokeness -you can practically hear people sputter and point. And here, look at the grief I get from you for refusing that orange pill.

                If you don't fit in a handy little compartment it upsets people. You need to either embrace The Woke or The Orange.

                I was only joking

                1 Reply Last reply
                • HoraceH Offline
                  HoraceH Offline
                  Horace
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #52

                  But neither you nor jon display much willingness to differentiate support for Trump over his political opposition, from some caricatured devotion to everything he thinks and says. Which is exactly an issue of fitting people into compartments.

                  Education is extremely important.

                  jon-nycJ Doctor PhibesD 2 Replies Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nycJ Offline
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                    #53

                    @Horace

                    I think the word Trumpism is a convenient one used to integrate anybody who prefers Trump to his current political opposition, with Trump himself.

                    That’s a hard view to reconcile with the 2016 primary.

                    Only non-witches get due process.

                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nycJ Offline
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #54

                      Or to reconcile with the many lifelong GOP stalwarts who couldn’t pull a lever for him. Including at least 4 here.

                      Trump definitely started a movement, and it was a fairly radical departure from the GOP that preceded it.

                      Only non-witches get due process.

                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                      • HoraceH Horace

                        But neither you nor jon display much willingness to differentiate support for Trump over his political opposition, from some caricatured devotion to everything he thinks and says. Which is exactly an issue of fitting people into compartments.

                        jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nycJ Offline
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                        #55

                        @Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                        But neither you nor jon display much willingness to differentiate support for Trump over his political opposition, from some caricatured devotion to everything he thinks and says.

                        Nonsense. Surely one of the reasons we post his most ridiculous tweets here is to watch you guys squirm a little.

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                        HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                        • HoraceH Horace

                          But neither you nor jon display much willingness to differentiate support for Trump over his political opposition, from some caricatured devotion to everything he thinks and says. Which is exactly an issue of fitting people into compartments.

                          Doctor PhibesD Offline
                          Doctor PhibesD Offline
                          Doctor Phibes
                          wrote on last edited by Doctor Phibes
                          #56

                          @Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                          But neither you nor jon display much willingness to differentiate support for Trump over his political opposition, from some caricatured devotion to everything he thinks and says. Which is exactly an issue of fitting people into compartments.

                          Some people here do seem to support just about everything he does. I also realise lots of people who voted for him didn't much like him. I find there's a huge difference from what people say here and what people say to me in real life. In real life I find it's much easier to have actual discussions without it descending into idiocy. And I fully realise I'm as guilty of that as anybody else. I've always had a very low boredom threshold, which generally leads to bad behavour. If you actually take half of what I say seriously, then what can I say? 😀

                          I was only joking

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • HoraceH Horace

                            @Catseye3 said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                            Moving on down in the article, in any discussion, Sullivan writes, "An oppressed person’s word is always the last one."

                            Is that because the other is struck dumb by the surreal stupidity with which he is confronted?

                            No, that's because of the weaponized cancellation of anybody who questions whether oppression grants ultimate authority in cultural/political discussions.

                            Catseye3C Offline
                            Catseye3C Offline
                            Catseye3
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #57

                            @Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                            No, that's because of the weaponized cancellation of anybody who questions whether oppression grants ultimate authority in cultural/political discussions.

                            Which is saying the same thing in Horace-speak.

                            Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

                            HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                            • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                              Or to reconcile with the many lifelong GOP stalwarts who couldn’t pull a lever for him. Including at least 4 here.

                              Trump definitely started a movement, and it was a fairly radical departure from the GOP that preceded it.

                              HoraceH Offline
                              HoraceH Offline
                              Horace
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #58

                              @jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                              Or to reconcile with the many lifelong GOP stalwarts who couldn’t pull a lever for him. Including at least 4 here.

                              Why would I need to go to any pains to reconcile that? People find Trump viscerally revolting because he sniffs low class. That sort of visceral revulsion is a red-line issue for some. I've explained that here at length. It's far from inscrutable to me.

                              Trump definitely started a movement, and it was a fairly radical departure from the GOP that preceded it.

                              His personality is a radical departure from GOP politicians before him. The movements he started were mostly in reaction against him, on the left.

                              Education is extremely important.

                              X 1 Reply Last reply
                              • Catseye3C Catseye3

                                @Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                                No, that's because of the weaponized cancellation of anybody who questions whether oppression grants ultimate authority in cultural/political discussions.

                                Which is saying the same thing in Horace-speak.

                                HoraceH Offline
                                HoraceH Offline
                                Horace
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #59

                                @Catseye3 said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                                @Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                                No, that's because of the weaponized cancellation of anybody who questions whether oppression grants ultimate authority in cultural/political discussions.

                                Which is saying the same thing in Horace-speak.

                                No, it wasn't the same thing. Nobody is silent against the cancel mob because the cancel mob is too stupid. It's because the cancel mob is too dangerous.

                                Education is extremely important.

                                Catseye3C 1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                  @Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                                  But neither you nor jon display much willingness to differentiate support for Trump over his political opposition, from some caricatured devotion to everything he thinks and says.

                                  Nonsense. Surely one of the reasons we post his most ridiculous tweets here is to watch you guys squirm a little.

                                  HoraceH Offline
                                  HoraceH Offline
                                  Horace
                                  wrote on last edited by Horace
                                  #60

                                  @jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                                  @Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                                  But neither you nor jon display much willingness to differentiate support for Trump over his political opposition, from some caricatured devotion to everything he thinks and says.

                                  Nonsense. Surely one of the reasons we post his most ridiculous tweets here is to watch you guys squirm a little.

                                  Well, you enjoy giggling at people you think are stupid. Meanwhile, as far as i know, most posters here, even his supporters, wish he'd calm down with those stupid tweets.

                                  Education is extremely important.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • jon-nycJ Offline
                                    jon-nycJ Offline
                                    jon-nyc
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #61

                                    Exactly, which we recognize. Hence my point.

                                    Only non-witches get due process.

                                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • HoraceH Horace

                                      @jon-nyc said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                                      Or to reconcile with the many lifelong GOP stalwarts who couldn’t pull a lever for him. Including at least 4 here.

                                      Why would I need to go to any pains to reconcile that? People find Trump viscerally revolting because he sniffs low class. That sort of visceral revulsion is a red-line issue for some. I've explained that here at length. It's far from inscrutable to me.

                                      Trump definitely started a movement, and it was a fairly radical departure from the GOP that preceded it.

                                      His personality is a radical departure from GOP politicians before him. The movements he started were mostly in reaction against him, on the left.

                                      X Offline
                                      X Offline
                                      xenon
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #62

                                      @Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                                      People find Trump viscerally revolting because he sniffs low class

                                      That depends on the definition of low-class

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      • HoraceH Horace

                                        @Catseye3 said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                                        @Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                                        No, that's because of the weaponized cancellation of anybody who questions whether oppression grants ultimate authority in cultural/political discussions.

                                        Which is saying the same thing in Horace-speak.

                                        No, it wasn't the same thing. Nobody is silent against the cancel mob because the cancel mob is too stupid. It's because the cancel mob is too dangerous.

                                        Catseye3C Offline
                                        Catseye3C Offline
                                        Catseye3
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #63

                                        @Horace said in Andrew Sullivan on The Roots of Wokeness:

                                        No, it wasn't the same thing. Nobody is silent against the cancel mob because the cancel mob is too stupid. It's because the cancel mob is too dangerous.

                                        How about both?

                                        As for the dangerous, yes, they are. But I can't accept that a movement this goofball can last forever. Like Phibbs (?) said, they're good at tearing down, not so much at building back up. And conditions don't remain in torn-down status indefinitely.

                                        I remain enough of a Randist to believe that in the end, above all, competence must prevail. I want to say to these people: If you want the goodies, do the work. Clear the starry-eyed crap out of your vision, study your human history, and accept that rising to the top demands more than painting big yellow letters on the pavement. Didn’t nobody promise you a rose garden, babe, and ain’t nobody gonna carry you but so far, for so long.

                                        Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        • LarryL Offline
                                          LarryL Offline
                                          Larry
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #64

                                          I don't know who's gonna win, but this is making me horny so I'm gonna fuck the winner.

                                          89th8 1 Reply Last reply
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