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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. First representative study (I know of)

First representative study (I know of)

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  • KlausK Offline
    KlausK Offline
    Klaus
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    This study came out today and is likely to influence the Corona policy of the German government.

    https://www.land.nrw/sites/default/files/asset/document/zwischenergebnis_covid19_case_study_gangelt.pdf

    It was conducted in the place with the highest density of Corona cases in Germany.

    Main result:

    Preliminary result: An existing immunity of approx. 14% (antiSARS-CoV2 IgG positive, specificity of the method>, 99%) was determined. About 2% of the Individuals had a current SARS-CoV-2 determined using the PCR method
    Infection on. The infection rate (current infection or already gone through) was
    a total of approx. 15%. The lethality (case fatality rate) based on the total number of
    Infected in the community of Gangelt is based on the preliminary data from this
    Study about 0.37%. Currently in Germany from Johns-Hopkins University
    calculated lethality is 1.98% and is 5 times higher. The
    Mortality based on the total population in Gangelt is currently 0.15%.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ Offline
      jon-nycJ Offline
      jon-nyc
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      I saw reference on twitter last night to half a dozen or so randomized antibody tests around the world. Today I will try to find them.

      Only non-witches get due process.

      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
      1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Do they have any indication of the state of the 15% who tested positive? IOW, how many of them are truly asymptomatic vs pre-symptomatic?

        Only non-witches get due process.

        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
        1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nycJ Offline
          jon-nyc
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          How would this affect policy? If hard-hit areas still have relatively low serology surely the primary conclusion is any curve-bending we see is due to social distancing and not herd immunity.

          Only non-witches get due process.

          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
          KlausK 1 Reply Last reply
          • KlausK Offline
            KlausK Offline
            Klaus
            wrote on last edited by Klaus
            #5

            The study is evidence that mortality rates are much lower than what the division exercises of the Johns Hopkins numbers suggest. Of course that affects policy. From what I understand, our government now considers it to be time to come up with a time plan to eventually get back to normal.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nycJ Offline
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              That was a content-free post.

              Of course the IFR is less than than CFR, that’s always been known. Why would this (or another) estimate change the approach?

              Only non-witches get due process.

              • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
              1 Reply Last reply
              • KlausK Offline
                KlausK Offline
                Klaus
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                You don't think it matters how much less it is?

                2% justifies an entirely different arsenal of policy than 0.1%.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                  How would this affect policy? If hard-hit areas still have relatively low serology surely the primary conclusion is any curve-bending we see is due to social distancing and not herd immunity.

                  KlausK Offline
                  KlausK Offline
                  Klaus
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  @jon-nyc said in First representative study (I know of):

                  How would this affect policy?

                  Also, your political instinct seems to be off.

                  Maybe you think it shouldn't affect public policy, and maybe you have good reasons for that (or not). But as a matter of fact it does.

                  Here's a random sample of news articles about this study from today. They all contain the same words: "Lockerung" - easing/relaxation of the quarantine. A surprisingly high immunity. A surprisingly low death rate.

                  https://www.morgenpost.de/vermischtes/article228882661/Coronavirus-Deutschland-Lockerung-der-Corona-Massnahmen-laut-Heinsberg-Forschern-moeglich.html

                  https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article207155699/Coronavirus-Studie-Heinsberg-15-Prozent-immun-erste-Lockerungen-moeglich.html

                  https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/heinsberg-studie-lockerung-von-auflagen-waere-offenbar.1939.de.html?drn:news_id=1119064

                  https://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/corona-statements-heinsberg-studie-14-prozent-der-untersuchten-buerger-sind-mittlerweile-immun_id_11867345.html

                  https://www.merkur.de/welt/coronavirus-nrw-heinsberg-karte-aktuell-fallzahlen-tote-abitur-kontaktverbot-infizierte-laschet-grenzen-zr-13642085.html

                  JollyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                  • KlausK Klaus

                    @jon-nyc said in First representative study (I know of):

                    How would this affect policy?

                    Also, your political instinct seems to be off.

                    Maybe you think it shouldn't affect public policy, and maybe you have good reasons for that (or not). But as a matter of fact it does.

                    Here's a random sample of news articles about this study from today. They all contain the same words: "Lockerung" - easing/relaxation of the quarantine. A surprisingly high immunity. A surprisingly low death rate.

                    https://www.morgenpost.de/vermischtes/article228882661/Coronavirus-Deutschland-Lockerung-der-Corona-Massnahmen-laut-Heinsberg-Forschern-moeglich.html

                    https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article207155699/Coronavirus-Studie-Heinsberg-15-Prozent-immun-erste-Lockerungen-moeglich.html

                    https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/heinsberg-studie-lockerung-von-auflagen-waere-offenbar.1939.de.html?drn:news_id=1119064

                    https://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/corona-statements-heinsberg-studie-14-prozent-der-untersuchten-buerger-sind-mittlerweile-immun_id_11867345.html

                    https://www.merkur.de/welt/coronavirus-nrw-heinsberg-karte-aktuell-fallzahlen-tote-abitur-kontaktverbot-infizierte-laschet-grenzen-zr-13642085.html

                    JollyJ Offline
                    JollyJ Offline
                    Jolly
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @Klaus said in First representative study (I know of):

                    @jon-nyc said in First representative study (I know of):

                    How would this affect policy?

                    Also, your political instinct seems to be off.

                    Maybe you think it shouldn't affect public policy, and maybe you have good reasons for that (or not). But as a matter of fact it does.

                    Here's a random sample of news articles about this study from today. They all contain the same words: "Lockerung" - easing/relaxation of the quarantine. A surprisingly high immunity. A surprisingly low death rate.

                    https://www.morgenpost.de/vermischtes/article228882661/Coronavirus-Deutschland-Lockerung-der-Corona-Massnahmen-laut-Heinsberg-Forschern-moeglich.html

                    https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article207155699/Coronavirus-Studie-Heinsberg-15-Prozent-immun-erste-Lockerungen-moeglich.html

                    https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/heinsberg-studie-lockerung-von-auflagen-waere-offenbar.1939.de.html?drn:news_id=1119064

                    https://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/corona-statements-heinsberg-studie-14-prozent-der-untersuchten-buerger-sind-mittlerweile-immun_id_11867345.html

                    https://www.merkur.de/welt/coronavirus-nrw-heinsberg-karte-aktuell-fallzahlen-tote-abitur-kontaktverbot-infizierte-laschet-grenzen-zr-13642085.html

                    Wonder if the population genetic make-up plays any factor?

                    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                    markM 1 Reply Last reply
                    • JollyJ Jolly

                      @Klaus said in First representative study (I know of):

                      @jon-nyc said in First representative study (I know of):

                      How would this affect policy?

                      Also, your political instinct seems to be off.

                      Maybe you think it shouldn't affect public policy, and maybe you have good reasons for that (or not). But as a matter of fact it does.

                      Here's a random sample of news articles about this study from today. They all contain the same words: "Lockerung" - easing/relaxation of the quarantine. A surprisingly high immunity. A surprisingly low death rate.

                      https://www.morgenpost.de/vermischtes/article228882661/Coronavirus-Deutschland-Lockerung-der-Corona-Massnahmen-laut-Heinsberg-Forschern-moeglich.html

                      https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article207155699/Coronavirus-Studie-Heinsberg-15-Prozent-immun-erste-Lockerungen-moeglich.html

                      https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/heinsberg-studie-lockerung-von-auflagen-waere-offenbar.1939.de.html?drn:news_id=1119064

                      https://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/corona-statements-heinsberg-studie-14-prozent-der-untersuchten-buerger-sind-mittlerweile-immun_id_11867345.html

                      https://www.merkur.de/welt/coronavirus-nrw-heinsberg-karte-aktuell-fallzahlen-tote-abitur-kontaktverbot-infizierte-laschet-grenzen-zr-13642085.html

                      Wonder if the population genetic make-up plays any factor?

                      markM Offline
                      markM Offline
                      mark
                      wrote on last edited by mark
                      #10

                      @Jolly said in First representative study (I know of):

                      @Klaus said in First representative study (I know of):

                      @jon-nyc said in First representative study (I know of):

                      How would this affect policy?

                      Also, your political instinct seems to be off.

                      Maybe you think it shouldn't affect public policy, and maybe you have good reasons for that (or not). But as a matter of fact it does.

                      Here's a random sample of news articles about this study from today. They all contain the same words: "Lockerung" - easing/relaxation of the quarantine. A surprisingly high immunity. A surprisingly low death rate.

                      https://www.morgenpost.de/vermischtes/article228882661/Coronavirus-Deutschland-Lockerung-der-Corona-Massnahmen-laut-Heinsberg-Forschern-moeglich.html

                      https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article207155699/Coronavirus-Studie-Heinsberg-15-Prozent-immun-erste-Lockerungen-moeglich.html

                      https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/heinsberg-studie-lockerung-von-auflagen-waere-offenbar.1939.de.html?drn:news_id=1119064

                      https://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/corona-statements-heinsberg-studie-14-prozent-der-untersuchten-buerger-sind-mittlerweile-immun_id_11867345.html

                      https://www.merkur.de/welt/coronavirus-nrw-heinsberg-karte-aktuell-fallzahlen-tote-abitur-kontaktverbot-infizierte-laschet-grenzen-zr-13642085.html

                      Wonder if the population genetic make-up plays any factor?

                      I have been thinking and talking to my wife about that. I think genetics has a huge role in this.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • Aqua LetiferA Offline
                        Aqua LetiferA Offline
                        Aqua Letifer
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        I'm guessing that too, mark. Would explain part of the random severity of the disease in some and not in others.

                        Please love yourself.

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