The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition
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@Jolly said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
Re-setting the Overton window by bullying dissenters.
The excellent book What's Wrong With Us by Tim Urban gets into this and how effective it is. If you silence certain conversations, you end up silencing the thoughts that created them. If people can't speak to one another out loud about certain ideas, the ideas really do die.
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@George-K said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
Remember Charlotte and tiki torches?
The most 2023 moment I can imagine is a bunch of Palestinian Americans marching in Charlotte chanting ‘Jews will not replace us!”
DON’T let them eat cake.
- RFK Jr -
@jon-nyc i was on my phone when I typed that, and it auto-corrected without me noticing.
Many of the Republican Party’s leading lights and household names unequivocally condemned Trump for wrestling publicly with himself over how forcefully he should distance himself from the racist demonstrators who descended on UVA — a group whose protests culminated in violence in Charlottesville.
I haven't heard any condemnation of the overt antisemitism from the Democrat leadership. Condemnation of violence, perhaps, but not calling it antisemitism.
Of course, I might be missing it.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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Bari Weiss
https://www.thefp.com/p/on-double-standards-and-deafening-new-york-times
When I was at The New York Times, an op-ed by a Republican senator led to a crisis at the paper, and the longest editor’s note that I could remember. At least until the one that was published yesterday about the Gaza hospital bombing (more about that in a moment).
Let’s stick, for a minute, to the brouhaha of June 2020. Perhaps you’ll remember some of the details, like the fact that hundreds of colleagues signed on to a statement saying that Tom Cotton’s op-ed “put the lives of black NYT staffers in danger.” My boss—and the paper’s former Jerusalem bureau chief, James Bennet—was pushed out after being humiliated in front of the paper’s entire staff. His deputy, Jim Dao, was reassigned and ultimately left the paper. Adam Rubenstein, the talented young editor (and loyal friend of The Free Press) who had a hand in working on the offending piece, was scapegoated and resigned. And you know what happened to me.
I mention all of this because on October 17, The New York Times sent a false report to all of its readers that presented, as fact, Hamas talking points. It claimed that Israel had bombed a hospital, killing 500 people: “Israeli Strike Kills Hundreds in Hospital, Palestinians Say.”
The headline was untrue on every level. The bomb was not Israeli, but a Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket aimed at Israel that misfired. The bomb didn’t hit the hospital, but the hospital parking lot. Hamas claimed that 500 people were killed, but a senior European intelligence source told AFP he thought the death toll was under 50; U.S. intelligence estimates that the number stands between 100 and 300. And it wasn’t Palestinians that said as much to the Times, but the Gaza Health Ministry—which is run by Hamas.
There was no uproar at the Times in response to this journalistic malpractice—at least not in public. Perhaps some expressed their concerns privately, for fear of reprisal.
In the meantime, riots broke out across the world accusing Israel of genocide. Members of Congress, including Rashida Tlaib, broadcast this misinformation.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@George-K said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
“Israeli Strike Kills Hundreds in Hospital, Palestinians Say.”
The headline was untrue on every level.
Actually the headline was exactly true. Palestinians DID say that.
It's worth complaining about the headline, and the NYT apologized after the fact, but her specific complaint is simply wrong.
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Your point is valid. But the subtext is missing from it.
Yes, the Palestinians DID say that, as you point out. Yet, below the headline, and unspoken in the article in the New York Times is any skepticism about the veracity of what "Palestinians Say."
Though reported with that mealy-mouthed qualification, no one, especially no one who spent days rioting in Chicago, Berlin, London and New York read those last two words.
The self-described paper of record needs to do better.
ETA: You'll (generic "you") never convince me that the fawning press had nothing to do with the agitation of the pro-Hamas riots.
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Not everybody parses out a news report like a Philadelphia lawyer...
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@George-K said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
@jon-nyc i was on my phone when I typed that, and it auto-corrected without me noticing.
Many of the Republican Party’s leading lights and household names unequivocally condemned Trump for wrestling publicly with himself over how forcefully he should distance himself from the racist demonstrators who descended on UVA — a group whose protests culminated in violence in Charlottesville.
I haven't heard any condemnation of the overt antisemitism from the Democrat leadership. Condemnation of violence, perhaps, but not calling it antisemitism.
Of course, I might be missing it.
The parents that say schools aren’t allowed to make decisions affecting your children’s mental health and well being are “literal Nazis” but the people perpetuating pogroms on the Jews? They should be cheered and celebrated…
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@jon-nyc said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
@George-K said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
“Israeli Strike Kills Hundreds in Hospital, Palestinians Say.”
The headline was untrue on every level.
Actually the headline was exactly true. Palestinians DID say that.
She addresses that.
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A little something else Ms. Weiss wrote:
”As a Democrat who has been left homeless, who is now definitely in the center but probably leaning increasingly right, I am left yet again with an appreciation, despite the messenger, of the message of the Trump administration because what those guys did was pretty incredible in hindsight.”
“So much of the work that happened in that [Trump] administration turns out to have been right. And that’s what is so frustrating for me. The work on the border wall? We didn’t like the messenger, so we killed the message. Turned out it was right. Issuing long-term debt to refinance when rates were at zero? We didn’t like the messenger, so we killed the message. A structural peace in the Middle East? We didn’t like the messenger, so we killed the message.”
“When are we gonna stop shooting ourselves in the foot? And when are we going to actually see and take the time to look past who is saying things and actually listen to them word for word?”
“If it’s clear that the last two weeks have been a wake-up call, the next question is: Why?”
“Part of the answer is the sheer depravity of Hamas’s terrorism. That depravity has made the justification and celebration of their acts by those who police pronouns that much starker. The contradictions and moral bankruptcy of a worldview that spends years worrying about microaggressions and tone policing, but can’t decide what side it is on after the beheading of babies, aren’t exactly difficult to spot.”
“To put it another way: when Black Lives Matter organizations are lionizing Islamist terrorists by posting a paraglider logo, you’d be a fool not to reassess things.”
“The events of the last week have shattered the illusion that wokeness is about protecting victims and standing up for persecuted minorities. This ideology is and has always been about the one thing many of us have told you it is about for years: power.
“And after the last two weeks, there can be no doubt about how these people will use any power they seize: they will seek to destroy, in any way they can, those who disagree.”
Always remember, Operation Valkyrie was an act of sedition.
Warning: I post things that interest me. Read and comment at your own discretion. -
@Jolly said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
A little something else Ms. Weiss wrote:
”As a Democrat who has been left homeless, who is now definitely in the center but probably leaning increasingly right, I am left yet again with an appreciation, despite the messenger, of the message of the Trump administration because what those guys did was pretty incredible in hindsight.”
“So much of the work that happened in that [Trump] administration turns out to have been right. And that’s what is so frustrating for me. The work on the border wall? We didn’t like the messenger, so we killed the message. Turned out it was right. Issuing long-term debt to refinance when rates were at zero? We didn’t like the messenger, so we killed the message. A structural peace in the Middle East? We didn’t like the messenger, so we killed the message.”
“When are we gonna stop shooting ourselves in the foot? And when are we going to actually see and take the time to look past who is saying things and actually listen to them word for word?”
“If it’s clear that the last two weeks have been a wake-up call, the next question is: Why?”
“Part of the answer is the sheer depravity of Hamas’s terrorism. That depravity has made the justification and celebration of their acts by those who police pronouns that much starker. The contradictions and moral bankruptcy of a worldview that spends years worrying about microaggressions and tone policing, but can’t decide what side it is on after the beheading of babies, aren’t exactly difficult to spot.”
“To put it another way: when Black Lives Matter organizations are lionizing Islamist terrorists by posting a paraglider logo, you’d be a fool not to reassess things.”
“The events of the last week have shattered the illusion that wokeness is about protecting victims and standing up for persecuted minorities. This ideology is and has always been about the one thing many of us have told you it is about for years: power.
“And after the last two weeks, there can be no doubt about how these people will use any power they seize: they will seek to destroy, in any way they can, those who disagree.”
Correction: That was in this column...
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@Horace said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
@jon-nyc said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
@George-K said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
“Israeli Strike Kills Hundreds in Hospital, Palestinians Say.”
The headline was untrue on every level.
Actually the headline was exactly true. Palestinians DID say that.
She addresses that.
Incorrectly. She said it wasn’t Palestinians, it was the Gaza this-or-that organization. Who TF does she think staffs it, Suedes?
Is the headline “Israelis say hospital strike caused by Palestinian Islamic Jihad” incorrect because it was actually the IDF that said it? Of course not.
DON’T let them eat cake.
- RFK Jr -
@jon-nyc said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
@Horace said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
@jon-nyc said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
@George-K said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
“Israeli Strike Kills Hundreds in Hospital, Palestinians Say.”
The headline was untrue on every level.
Actually the headline was exactly true. Palestinians DID say that.
She addresses that.
Incorrectly. She said it wasn’t Palestinians, it was the Gaza this-or-that organization. Who TF does she think staffs it, Suedes?
Is the headline “Israelis say hospital strike caused by Palestinian Islamic Jihad” incorrect because it was actually the IDF that said it? Of course not.
A great deal of the conversation about the conflict is about the difference between Palestinians and Hamas. The distinction matters.
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“So much of the work that happened in that [Trump] administration turns out to have been right. And that’s what is so frustrating for me. The work on the border wall? We didn’t like the messenger, so we killed the message. Turned out it was right. Issuing long-term debt to refinance when rates were at zero? We didn’t like the messenger, so we killed the message. A structural peace in the Middle East? We didn’t like the messenger, so we killed the message.”
First one I’ll agree.
50 and 100 year bonds? Wasn’t partisan at all and Mnuchen gave up on the idea in 2020 due to lack of investor demand. Yellen took it up the next year and dropped it for the same reason.
Structural peace in the Middle East? Again not a partisan issue except on certain details (e.g. selling out Western Sahara).
In fact Biden was successfully advancing the big kahuna - Saudi Arabia - until 10/7 blew it up.
I think, as Horace alludes to, her hatred of wokeness has gotten visceral. What do you do in order to ‘own’ woke people? Inflict the orange man on them.
She’s forgetting that Trump brings more woke, not less.
Woke recedes when centrist dems push it away.
Think of the opposite case, imagine electing a President AOC. That may ‘own’ the Maga crowd in the moment, but it would bring more Maga in response, not less.
DON’T let them eat cake.
- RFK Jr -
@jon-nyc said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
“So much of the work that happened in that [Trump] administration turns out to have been right. And that’s what is so frustrating for me. The work on the border wall? We didn’t like the messenger, so we killed the message. Turned out it was right. Issuing long-term debt to refinance when rates were at zero? We didn’t like the messenger, so we killed the message. A structural peace in the Middle East? We didn’t like the messenger, so we killed the message.”
First one I’ll agree.
50 and 100 year bonds? Wasn’t partisan at all and Mnuchen gave up on the idea in 2020 due to lack of investor demand. Yellen took it up the next year and dropped it for the same reason.
Structural peace in the Middle East? Again not a partisan issue except on certain details (e.g. selling out Western Sahara).
In fact Biden was successfully advancing the big kahuna - Saudi Arabia - until 10/7 blew it up.
I think, as Horace alludes to, her hatred of wokeness has gotten visceral. What do you do in order to ‘own’ woke people? Inflict the orange man on them.
She’s forgetting that Trump brings more woke, not less.
Woke recedes when centrist dems push it away.
Think of the opposite case, imagine electing a President AOC. That may ‘own’ the Maga crowd in the moment, but it would bring more Maga in response, not less.
Interesting analysis. What does a visceral hatred of Trump and his supporters bring?
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I suppose it would make one go woke.
Like visceral hatred of wokeness is pushing her to Magastan in real time.
DON’T let them eat cake.
- RFK Jr -
@jon-nyc said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
I suppose it would make one go woke.
Like visceral hatred of wokeness is pushing her to Magastan in real time.
She listed three policy directions of Trump's that she thinks are good. You don't appear to disagree. I see no reason to pathologize or tribalize her words. I do see how her words can indicate a de-tribalization on her part. She will not be denying 2020 election results any time soon. I'm proud of her that she's no longer scared of saying something positive about Trump.
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she didn't just do that, she went on to say that 'We didn’t like the messenger, so we killed the message' but that isn't true in cases 2 and 3.
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@Horace said in The Hypocrisy of the Progressive Left: Israel vs Hamas Edition:
I do see how her words can indicate a de-tribalization on her part.
The reason you know who she is is because she already de-tribalized in the summer of 2020. She quit in the aftermath of the young wokesters cashiering James Bennett and started a sub stack which (with SV funding) became the Free Press.
What you're witnessing now (perhaps) is her re-tribalization. Sometimes that happens, you know.
