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The New Coffee Room

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  3. The Two Big Myths about the Middle East

The Two Big Myths about the Middle East

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  • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

    @George-K said in The Two Big Myths about the Middle East:

    @Doctor-Phibes said in The Two Big Myths about the Middle East:

    If you go back 500 years there's no such thing as Americans. Or the British, for that matter. People make shit up.

    That, more or less, is my point.

    Everyone looks at historical precedent. The only question really is how far back do you want to go?

    You could probably go back tens of thousands of years to the times when Homo sapiens was beating the crap out of Homo neanderthalensis.

    I thought the article you posted was rather distasteful. The phrase "We should not refer to the so-called Palestinians as a real people." has some unpleasant undertones. They see themselves as a real people, as Bach said.

    George KG Offline
    George KG Offline
    George K
    wrote on last edited by
    #10

    @Doctor-Phibes said in The Two Big Myths about the Middle East:

    I thought the article you posted was rather distasteful. The phrase "We should not refer to the so-called Palestinians as a real people." has some unpleasant undertones. They see themselves as a real people, as Bach said.

    I didn't read it that way, but of course, that's up to interpretation. I read it as "we should not refer to the Palestinians as A real people, with the emphasis that their ethnicity is questionable.

    Again, I'm not disputing what Bach points out, or even agreeing with the article, for that matter - just questioning the history of the region and the populations. As you pointed out, history goes back a long way. The only question is when do you want to start counting? The Mohammedans didn't exist until 700 years after Jesus, and they claim it's their land?

    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

    Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
    • George KG George K

      @Doctor-Phibes said in The Two Big Myths about the Middle East:

      I thought the article you posted was rather distasteful. The phrase "We should not refer to the so-called Palestinians as a real people." has some unpleasant undertones. They see themselves as a real people, as Bach said.

      I didn't read it that way, but of course, that's up to interpretation. I read it as "we should not refer to the Palestinians as A real people, with the emphasis that their ethnicity is questionable.

      Again, I'm not disputing what Bach points out, or even agreeing with the article, for that matter - just questioning the history of the region and the populations. As you pointed out, history goes back a long way. The only question is when do you want to start counting? The Mohammedans didn't exist until 700 years after Jesus, and they claim it's their land?

      Doctor PhibesD Offline
      Doctor PhibesD Offline
      Doctor Phibes
      wrote on last edited by
      #11

      @George-K said in The Two Big Myths about the Middle East:

      I didn't read it that way, but of course, that's up to interpretation. I read it as "we should not refer to the Palestinians as A real people, with the emphasis that their ethnicity is questionable.

      One might as well say that Londoners aren't real. If only it were true.

      I was only joking

      RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nycJ Offline
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by
        #12

        Myth 2 doesn’t follow from myth 1. Palestine may not have been a ‘state’ in the modern sense but it was a Roman province. You wouldn’t say there are no Puerto Ricans because it’s not a state.

        Also, what Bach said.

        They’ll end up, after a lot of drama, with the same formula they use every time they have a trifecta: take away health care and food assistance from low income families and use the money to fund tax cuts for their donors.

        Aqua LetiferA 1 Reply Last reply
        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

          Myth 2 doesn’t follow from myth 1. Palestine may not have been a ‘state’ in the modern sense but it was a Roman province. You wouldn’t say there are no Puerto Ricans because it’s not a state.

          Also, what Bach said.

          Aqua LetiferA Offline
          Aqua LetiferA Offline
          Aqua Letifer
          wrote on last edited by
          #13

          @jon-nyc said in The Two Big Myths about the Middle East:

          You wouldn’t say there are no Puerto Ricans because it’s not a state.

          You also wouldn't say that Puerto Rico is identical to Connecticut in terms of statehood.

          "There is no such thing as Palestine" and "Palestine is no different politically than any other country" are both too extreme to take seriously.

          Please love yourself.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • George KG George K

            @Doctor-Phibes said in The Two Big Myths about the Middle East:

            If you go back 500 years there's no such thing as Americans. Or the British, for that matter. People make shit up.

            That, more or less, is my point.

            Everyone looks at historical precedent. The only question really is how far back do you want to go?

            You could probably go back tens of thousands of years to the times when Homo sapiens was beating the crap out of Homo neanderthalensis.

            bachophileB Offline
            bachophileB Offline
            bachophile
            wrote on last edited by bachophile
            #14

            @George-K true but honestly, Jewish faith has revolved around a return to Zion for two thousand years without any break. The idea that Zionism is just another form of 19 century nationalism arising de novo from nothing but European national renaissance is to rewrite history.

            George KG 1 Reply Last reply
            • bachophileB bachophile

              @George-K true but honestly, Jewish faith has revolved around a return to Zion for two thousand years without any break. The idea that Zionism is just another form of 19 century nationalism arising de novo from nothing but European national renaissance is to rewrite history.

              George KG Offline
              George KG Offline
              George K
              wrote on last edited by
              #15

              @bachophile said in The Two Big Myths about the Middle East:

              @George-K true but honestly, Jewish faith has revolved around a return to Zion for two thousand years without any break.

              My point, exactly.

              The idea that Zionism is just another form of 19 century nationalism arising de novo from nothing but European national renaissance is to rewrite history.

              And the claim on "Palestine?"

              "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

              The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                @George-K said in The Two Big Myths about the Middle East:

                I didn't read it that way, but of course, that's up to interpretation. I read it as "we should not refer to the Palestinians as A real people, with the emphasis that their ethnicity is questionable.

                One might as well say that Londoners aren't real. If only it were true.

                RenaudaR Offline
                RenaudaR Offline
                Renauda
                wrote on last edited by Renauda
                #16

                @Doctor-Phibes said in The Two Big Myths about the Middle East:

                @George-K said in The Two Big Myths about the Middle East:

                I didn't read it that way, but of course, that's up to interpretation. I read it as "we should not refer to the Palestinians as A real people, with the emphasis that their ethnicity is questionable.

                One might as well say that Londoners aren't real. If only it were true.

                That same argument is being used in part to justify an invasion, occupation and annexation of sovereign Ukraine and its territory. We are told Ukraine is an artificial construct.

                Elbows up!

                Doctor PhibesD 1 Reply Last reply
                • RenaudaR Renauda

                  @Doctor-Phibes said in The Two Big Myths about the Middle East:

                  @George-K said in The Two Big Myths about the Middle East:

                  I didn't read it that way, but of course, that's up to interpretation. I read it as "we should not refer to the Palestinians as A real people, with the emphasis that their ethnicity is questionable.

                  One might as well say that Londoners aren't real. If only it were true.

                  That same argument is being used in part to justify an invasion, occupation and annexation of sovereign Ukraine and its territory. We are told Ukraine is an artificial construct.

                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                  Doctor PhibesD Offline
                  Doctor Phibes
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #17

                  @Renauda said in The Two Big Myths about the Middle East:

                  We are told Ukraine is an artificial construct.

                  Which is pretty ironic when you consider that Putin comes from the USSR.

                  I was only joking

                  RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                  • Doctor PhibesD Doctor Phibes

                    @Renauda said in The Two Big Myths about the Middle East:

                    We are told Ukraine is an artificial construct.

                    Which is pretty ironic when you consider that Putin comes from the USSR.

                    RenaudaR Offline
                    RenaudaR Offline
                    Renauda
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #18

                    @Doctor-Phibes

                    Indeed, Putin cannot cope with the tragedy of it all.

                    Elbows up!

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • George KG George K

                      https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2023/10/the_two_big_myths_about_the_middle_east.html

                      Myth 1. The State of Palestine

                      This so-called state is like Brigadoon, with two exceptions:

                      a. It never appeared.

                      b. It refuses to go away.

                      Neither a country nor a state of Palestine has ever existed.

                      Myth 2. Palestinians

                      No state, no nation, no people. Palestine never existed, hence Palestinians never existed, do not exist. Full stop.

                      Someone with a deeper knowledge of the geopolitics of the region might want to take a deeper look at this article.

                      I'm curious as to what he got wrong.

                      taiwan_girlT Offline
                      taiwan_girlT Offline
                      taiwan_girl
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #19

                      @George-K said in The Two Big Myths about the Middle East:

                      Myth 2. Palestinians

                      No state, no nation, no people. Palestine never existed, hence Palestinians never existed, do not exist. Full stop.

                      Today at the UN
                      https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148731?_gl=1bg71ms_gaMjA2OTM4NTgwLjE3MTM0OTE1MTQ._ga_TK9BQL5X7Z*MTcxMzQ5MTUxMy4xLjEuMTcxMzQ5MTU4Mi4wLjAuMA..

                      In a vote of 12 in favour to one against, with two abstentions, the Council did not adopt a draft resolution that would have recommended the General Assembly to hold a vote with the broader UN membership to allow Palestine to join as a full UN Member State.

                      The draft resolution is among the shortest in the Council’s history: “The Security Council, having examined the application of the State of Palestine for admission to the United Nations (S/2011/592), recommends to the General Assembly that the State of Palestine be admitted to membership in the United Nations.”

                      For a draft resolution to pass, the Council must have at least nine members in favour and none of its permanent members – China, France, Russia, United Kingdom, United States – using their veto power.

                      The US voted against it because they said that granting Palestinian full membership would be the same as acknowedging Palestine as a state. Whether or not palestine becomes a state is part of the negotiations between Isreal and Palestine.

                      I agree with this assessment.

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