Hamas attacks Israel
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I'd feel better about their position if I didn't think it was about the election. They don't want to lose the young folks while I suspect in private they are fine with Israel's actions.
wrote on 25 Mar 2024, 13:43 last edited by@Mik said in The Ukraine war thread:
They don't want to lose the young folks while I suspect in private they are fine with Israel's actions.
And the "young folks" are woefully ignorant.
But yeah, there's probably more than a bit of cynicism warranted.
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wrote on 25 Mar 2024, 14:02 last edited by Mik
You'll note there is no mention of actions the US might take. None. And there won't ever be. Miserable cowardice and deceit.
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wrote on 25 Mar 2024, 14:06 last edited by
From the RWEC:
Even if that weren't the case, what are the alternatives? Hamas has made it clear that they have no intention of simply releasing the rest of the hostages and surrendering en masse. (That could end the war tomorrow.) So the only other options would be an endless standoff outside of Rafah or having Israel surrender and go home, allowing Hamas to win the war. Would Kamala Harris prefer one of those options more?
Sadly, these cracks in our alliance with our closest ally didn't have to be inflicted. The Veep was only attempting to follow her marching orders and act as an extension of Joe Biden's current, floundering foreign policy moves. None of this has anything to do with Israel and Gaza. It has to do with Michigan and Wisconsin. The Biden administration is hemorrhaging support among Arab and Muslim liberal voters and going into a panic. They're trying to walk a tightrope between continuing to support Israel and seeming as if they support a ceasefire. Kamala Harris just took it a step too far during her interview on ABC. The end result will be negligible. Bibi Netanyahu already responded to the Veep's comments and said that the move into Rafah "will happen." He is not impressed with Harris' threats.
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wrote on 25 Mar 2024, 14:11 last edited by Mik
As I thought. My cynicism is well earned.
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wrote on 25 Mar 2024, 16:19 last edited by
They seemed to have settled on a plan to support Israel while criticizing Bibi. That’s a win for Biden and a win for Bibi and it carries no cost.
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wrote on 25 Mar 2024, 22:40 last edited by
UN Security Council passes resolution calling for Gaza ceasefire
The UN Security Council has called for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, after the US did not veto the measure in a shift from its previous position.
It also demanded the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages.
It is the first time the council has called for a ceasefire since the war began in October after several failed attempts.
The move by the US signals growing divergence between it and its ally Israel over Israel's offensive in Gaza.
In an unusually strong rebuke, a statement from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office said the US had "abandoned" its previous position which had directly linked a ceasefire to a hostage release.
"Regrettably, the United States did not veto the new resolution," it said.
In the Security Council vote on Monday, the US abstained, while the remaining 14 members voted in favour.
The US had previously blocked resolutions calling for a ceasefire, saying such a move would be wrong while delicate negotiations for a truce and hostage releases were continuing between Israel and Hamas.
But on Thursday it tabled its own draft, which for the first time called for a ceasefire, marking a hardening of its stance towards Israel.
US National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said the US' decision to let the resolution pass did not mean a "shift in our policy". He said the US backed a ceasefire but did not vote in favour of the resolution because the text did not condemn Hamas.
Speaking at a press briefing after the resolution was passed, Mr Kirby said: "We have been very clear, we have been very consistent in our support for a ceasefire as part of a hostage deal. That's how the hostage deal is structured, and the resolution acknowledges the ongoing talks."
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wrote on 25 Mar 2024, 22:47 last edited by
Maybe I'm just not hip to the way of diplomacy - but abstain seems like a cowardly option.
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wrote on 25 Mar 2024, 22:51 last edited by
@xenon said in Hamas attacks Israel:
Maybe I'm just not hip to the way of diplomacy - but abstain seems like a cowardly option.
A cynic would suggest it gives them political cover while not actually doing something.
A cynic.
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wrote on 25 Mar 2024, 22:53 last edited by
Let me remind all of the criticism of Trump that our allies will not trust us.
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@xenon said in Hamas attacks Israel:
Maybe I'm just not hip to the way of diplomacy - but abstain seems like a cowardly option.
A cynic would suggest it gives them political cover while not actually doing something.
A cynic.
wrote on 25 Mar 2024, 22:54 last edited by@George-K said in Hamas attacks Israel:
@xenon said in Hamas attacks Israel:
Maybe I'm just not hip to the way of diplomacy - but abstain seems like a cowardly option.
A cynic would suggest it gives them political cover while not actually doing something.
A cynic.
You rang?
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wrote on 25 Mar 2024, 22:56 last edited by xenon
I'm not even commenting on the substance of the vote. I just don't understand why it's a viable option for elected/appointed leaders to say "no comment". Isn't it your job to decide?
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I'm not even commenting on the substance of the vote. I just don't understand why it's a viable option for elected/appointed leaders to say "no comment". Isn't it your job to decide?
wrote on 25 Mar 2024, 23:04 last edited by@xenon said in Hamas attacks Israel:
I just don't understand why it's a viable option for elected/appointed leaders to say "no comment". Isn't it your job to decide?
Yeah, I understand.
But when diplomacy, the right thing and politics are involved in a three-way collision, the result is rarely brave.
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wrote on 26 Mar 2024, 03:32 last edited by
@xenon said in Hamas attacks Israel:
Maybe I'm just not hip to the way of diplomacy - but abstain seems like a cowardly option.
If the US or any other Permanent Member of the UNSC votes No it is a veto of the resolution in its entirety. By abstaining means that the Permanent Member supports the substance of the resolution but not all its details or how the resolution might be enforced.
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@xenon said in Hamas attacks Israel:
Maybe I'm just not hip to the way of diplomacy - but abstain seems like a cowardly option.
If the US or any other Permanent Member of the UNSC votes No it is a veto of the resolution in its entirety. By abstaining means that the Permanent Member supports the substance of the resolution but not all its details or how the resolution might be enforced.
wrote on 26 Mar 2024, 12:35 last edited by@Renauda good points. Perhaps reiterated in this story.
Meanwhile, the White House is surprised:
The White House said it was 'perplexed' by the fact Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu canceled a high-level meeting in Washington after the U.S. abstained on a UN ceasefire resolution.
'We're perplexed by this,' White House spokesman John Kirby told reporters on Monday.
Netanyahu accused the U.S. of 'retreating' from a 'principled position' with its vote. American officials said the U.S. abstained because the resolution didn't condemn Hamas. By abstaining instead of vetoing, the U.S. allowed the resolution to pass.
Kirby said that America's vote 'does not represent a shift in our policy.'
'We've been very consistent in our support for a ceasefire as part of a hostage deal,' he said. 'But because the final text does not have key language that we think is essential, such as condemning Hamas, we couldn't support it.'
'It seems like the prime minister's office is choosing to create a perception of daylight here when they don't need to do that,' Kirby noted.
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wrote on 26 Mar 2024, 12:48 last edited by
Anything involving the UN and Israel has been a joke over the last 50 years.
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wrote on 26 Mar 2024, 14:56 last edited by
I imagine perplexity is a regular occurrence in the Whitehouse
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wrote on 1 Apr 2024, 15:56 last edited by
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wrote on 5 Apr 2024, 10:46 last edited by
Israel is the same as Hamas, says The United States.
US Secretary of State Antony Blinken warns that Israel risks becoming indistinguishable from Hamas if it continues to fail to protect civilians amid the Gaza war.
“What happened after October 7 could have ended immediately if Hamas had stopped hiding behind civilians, released the hostages and put down its weapons, but Israel is not Hamas. Israel is a democracy; Hamas, a terrorist organization. Democracies place the highest value on human life, every human life. As it has been said, whoever saves a life, saves the entire world,” Blinken says during a press conference in Brussels, quoting a Jewish proverb.
“That’s our strength. It’s what distinguishes us from terrorists like Hamas. If we lose that reverence for human life, we risk becoming indistinguishable from those we confront.”
“Right now, there is no higher priority in Gaza than protecting civilians, surging humanitarian assistance, and ensuring the security of those who provide it. Israel must meet this moment,” Blinken said.
He notes “important steps” Israel has taken to allow aid into Gaza, but clarifies that “the results on the ground are woefully insufficient and unacceptable,” with 100 percent of Gazans facing acute insecurity.
“This week’s horrific attack on the World Central Kitchen was not the first such incident. It must be the last,” the top US diplomat warns.
Shall we talk about the Afghan civilians that were killed by a US missile under your administration, Mr. Secretary?
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Israel is the same as Hamas, says The United States.
US Secretary of State Antony Blinken warns that Israel risks becoming indistinguishable from Hamas if it continues to fail to protect civilians amid the Gaza war.
“What happened after October 7 could have ended immediately if Hamas had stopped hiding behind civilians, released the hostages and put down its weapons, but Israel is not Hamas. Israel is a democracy; Hamas, a terrorist organization. Democracies place the highest value on human life, every human life. As it has been said, whoever saves a life, saves the entire world,” Blinken says during a press conference in Brussels, quoting a Jewish proverb.
“That’s our strength. It’s what distinguishes us from terrorists like Hamas. If we lose that reverence for human life, we risk becoming indistinguishable from those we confront.”
“Right now, there is no higher priority in Gaza than protecting civilians, surging humanitarian assistance, and ensuring the security of those who provide it. Israel must meet this moment,” Blinken said.
He notes “important steps” Israel has taken to allow aid into Gaza, but clarifies that “the results on the ground are woefully insufficient and unacceptable,” with 100 percent of Gazans facing acute insecurity.
“This week’s horrific attack on the World Central Kitchen was not the first such incident. It must be the last,” the top US diplomat warns.
Shall we talk about the Afghan civilians that were killed by a US missile under your administration, Mr. Secretary?
wrote on 5 Apr 2024, 11:16 last edited by@George-K said in Hamas attacks Israel:
Israel is the same as Hamas, says The United States.
He literally said the opposite of that.
“… but Israel is not Hamas. Israel is a democracy;”
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wrote on 5 Apr 2024, 12:13 last edited by
Well what I meant is that he said something similar to it.
Israel risks becoming indistinguishable from Hamas if it continues to fail to protect civilians amid the Gaza war.