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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Hamas attacks Israel

Hamas attacks Israel

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  • jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote on last edited by
    #1261

    Fox News: “33 hostages will be released, some alive and some dead”

    You were warned.

    1 Reply Last reply
    • jon-nycJ Online
      jon-nycJ Online
      jon-nyc
      wrote on last edited by
      #1262

      Bret Stephens. Paywalled, so I’ll copy paste here.

      The most interesting detail of the hostage-cease fire deal that Israeli and Hamas officials agreed to on Wednesday lies neither in its terms, which mainly resemble what’s been on the table for months, nor in the fact that Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel’s prime minister, is effectively acquiescing to Hamas’s continued grip on power in the Gaza Strip after loudly and repeatedly vowing he wouldn’t.

      It’s the way the deal was secured: by Steven Witkoff, Donald Trump’s billionaire friend and incoming Mideast envoy, in a blunt Saturday morning meeting with the prime minister. “The envoy explained to his host in no uncertain terms that Trump expected him to agree to a deal,” Amos Harel, the Haaretz military analyst, reported on Tuesday. “Things that Netanyahu had termed life-and-death issues,” he added, “suddenly vanished.”

      Harel calls this “the Trump effect.” What is it? Partly it’s the store of political capital that every president-elect has before coming to office and spending (or squandering) it; partly it’s the fact that Trump is behaving as if he’s already the president. But mostly it’s the fear and eagerness to please that Trump engenders, above all in those who seek his favor.

      The result, in the hostage case, is an underappreciated diplomatic paradox: Thanks largely to Trump, a deal demanded by the Israeli left and reviled by the right is about to come into effect. A year’s worth of diplomacy by the Biden administration is finally about to bear fruit on account of its political nemesis. The far-right parties that are part of Netanyahu’s coalition may bolt the government. And Netanyahu is far more prepared to bend the knee to Washington than he was when there were Democrats in the White House.
      In the hostage deal, the price for Israel will in many ways be heavy. For every Israeli hostage released by Hamas, Israel will release several-fold Palestinian prisoners, many of them with Israeli blood on their hands. It was through one such release that Yahya Sinwar, the mastermind of the Oct. 7 massacre, was freed. The phased nature of the agreement — which begins with the release of 33 hostages, most of them living but some most likely dead — will leave an unknown number behind, raising their political value and giving Hamas an opportunity to extract additional concessions.

      Most seriously, if Israel withdraws from the Philadelphi Corridor, the strip of land that separates Gaza from Egypt, Hamas may have the opportunity to rearm itself at scale, making an eventual replay of Oct. 7 and its aftermath more likely, though by no means inevitable.

      This doesn’t mean the deal is a bad one for Israel’s national interest — to say nothing of the blessing it is for the returning hostages, their families and a people who believe that the redemption of captives is a supreme moral duty.

      Unlike in May, when Biden first broached this agreement (or early September, when I opposed it) Israel now finds itself in a vastly stronger strategic position. The Iranian-led “Axis of Resistance,” of which Hamas was a member, has been decimated in Beirut, overthrown in Damascus, flattened in Gaza and badly stung in Tehran itself. No matter how many Palestinian prisoners are released, nobody in Hamas can seriously say that their Oct. 7 gamble rewarded them with anything except catastrophe. Israel also has less to fear, with Trump as president, from the threat of international arms embargoes or legal sanctions: Watch for all the risks of arresting Netanyahu in European capitals swiftly to disappear.

      A more difficult quandary for the Israeli right is what else Trump may want them to accept. The president-elect clearly wants an Israeli-Saudi normalization agreement as a capstone to the Abraham Accords he oversaw in 2020. For that to happen, the Saudis will demand a road map for a Palestinian state. Trump may also prefer to use Iran’s current weakness to negotiate a second nuclear deal, when what Netanyahu most wants is American help in an Israeli strike on Iran’s nuclear sites, possibly in the next weeks or months.
      Where wisdom lies on either front rests mainly in the details. (I would favor nearly any plausible deal with Saudi Arabia and oppose nearly any likely one with Tehran.) But the larger point is this: Trump is going to scramble traditional foreign-policy assumptions, left or right. Liberals who think Trump’s second term will be one of unbridled bellicosity may be surprised. Conservatives who hope it will bring some overdue toughness on our enemies may be disappointed.

      Donald Trump may have the soul of a bully, but he also has the instincts of a dealmaker — and a yearning for acclaim, including the Nobel Peace Prize he thinks he was denied for the Abraham Accords. Whatever else his next four years in power bring, it won’t conform to ideological type. Somewhere out there, the spirit of Richard Milhous Nixon is smiling.

      You were warned.

      1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by
        #1263

        I think the odds of Trump deciding to make a deal with even a weakened Iran are miniscule, I envision a joint attack on their nuclear program and maybe oil infrastructure within a few months. Notwithstanding that detail, it’s a good piece.

        You were warned.

        1 Reply Last reply
        • LuFins DadL Offline
          LuFins DadL Offline
          LuFins Dad
          wrote on last edited by
          #1264

          The Brad

          1 Reply Last reply
          • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

            My guess is Bibi felt compelled but also figures Trump will have a low bar as to what constitutes a violation on the part of Hamas so it’ll be mere months before they can continue. In the mean time he gets some of the hostages back.

            jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nycJ Online
            jon-nyc
            wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
            #1265

            @jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:

            My guess is Bibi felt compelled but also figures Trump will have a low bar as to what constitutes a violation on the part of Hamas so it’ll be mere months before they can continue. In the mean time he gets some of the hostages back.

            Confirmed. Also this is team Trump feeling the blowback. His supporters here and in Israel thought it would be Hamas’ feet held to the fire, not Israel’s.

            You were warned.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • jon-nycJ Online
              jon-nycJ Online
              jon-nyc
              wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
              #1266

              The below gave me a horrible thought- I wonder if any young ladies were killed recently in order to ‘return’ them without them sharing their experiences.

              You were warned.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by
                #1267

                Read the whole tweet. Top part is some deal politics news and bottom some additional details.

                You were warned.

                1 Reply Last reply
                • jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nycJ Online
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #1268

                  Interior Minister Gvir taps out.

                  You were warned.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • George KG Offline
                    George KG Offline
                    George K
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #1269

                    penis1.jpg

                    "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                    The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • George KG Offline
                      George KG Offline
                      George K
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #1270

                      "Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08

                      The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #1271

                        When this temporary ceasefire is over it looks like there’s a lot of killing left to do.

                        You were warned.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • bachophileB Offline
                          bachophileB Offline
                          bachophile
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #1272

                          Just to emphasize the ugliness of this all, one of the girls freed today, Hamas reported killed in November. Imagine the family.

                          https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/2334840/hamas-claims-israeli-hostage-daniella-gilboa-killed-in-northern-gaza-airstrike.html

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • LuFins DadL Offline
                            LuFins DadL Offline
                            LuFins Dad
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #1273

                            What’s the actual number of live hostages released?

                            The Brad

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • jon-nycJ Online
                              jon-nycJ Online
                              jon-nyc
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #1274

                              It’s ongoing. A few a week for 42 or 45 days or something.

                              You were warned.

                              LuFins DadL 1 Reply Last reply
                              • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                                It’s ongoing. A few a week for 42 or 45 days or something.

                                LuFins DadL Offline
                                LuFins DadL Offline
                                LuFins Dad
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #1275

                                @jon-nyc said in Hamas attacks Israel:

                                It’s ongoing. A few a week for 42 or 45 days or something.

                                Right, but what’s the number of living hostages vs the number of corpses they’ve released so far?

                                The Brad

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                • jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nycJ Online
                                  jon-nyc
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #1276

                                  As of January 25, 2025, under the latest ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas, a total of seven Israeli hostages have been released.

                                  Details of the Releases:
                                  1. January 19, 2025: Hamas released three Israeli civilians:
                                  • Emily Damari (28)
                                  • Romi Gonen (24)
                                  • Doron Steinbrecher (31)
                                  These individuals were handed over to the International Committee of the Red Cross and subsequently reunited with their families in Israel. 
                                  2. January 25, 2025: Hamas released four female Israeli soldiers:
                                  • Karina Ariev (20)
                                  • Daniella Gilboa (20)
                                  • Naama Levy (20)
                                  • Liri Albag (19)
                                  These soldiers were released in exchange for 200 Palestinian prisoners as part of the ceasefire agreement. 

                                  The ceasefire, which began on January 19, 2025, aims to halt the 15-month-long conflict in Gaza and includes provisions for further hostage releases and prisoner exchanges. Negotiations are ongoing, mediated by Qatar and Egypt, with plans for additional exchanges and Israeli troop withdrawals from Gaza. 

                                  It’s important to note that while these releases are significant steps toward de-escalation, Hamas still holds approximately 90 hostages. The situation remains dynamic, and further developments are anticipated as negotiations continue. 

                                  You were warned.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • jon-nycJ Online
                                    jon-nycJ Online
                                    jon-nyc
                                    wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                                    #1277

                                    Careful your screen might get blurry.

                                    You were warned.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • bachophileB Offline
                                      bachophileB Offline
                                      bachophile
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #1278

                                      Reporting here already two Palestinian prisoners refusing to leave prison. (On the list of prisoners being sent to Gaza) and prefer prison.

                                      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                                      • bachophileB bachophile

                                        Reporting here already two Palestinian prisoners refusing to leave prison. (On the list of prisoners being sent to Gaza) and prefer prison.

                                        HoraceH Offline
                                        HoraceH Offline
                                        Horace
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #1279

                                        @bachophile said in Hamas attacks Israel:

                                        Reporting here already two Palestinian prisoners refusing to leave prison. (On the list of prisoners being sent to Gaza) and prefer prison.

                                        They have a better life in an Israeli prison than they do in Gaza?

                                        Education is extremely important.

                                        RenaudaR 1 Reply Last reply
                                        • HoraceH Horace

                                          @bachophile said in Hamas attacks Israel:

                                          Reporting here already two Palestinian prisoners refusing to leave prison. (On the list of prisoners being sent to Gaza) and prefer prison.

                                          They have a better life in an Israeli prison than they do in Gaza?

                                          RenaudaR Offline
                                          RenaudaR Offline
                                          Renauda
                                          wrote on last edited by Renauda
                                          #1280

                                          @Horace

                                          They’re probably fully aware that they are dead women/men walking once Hamas has its mitts on them.

                                          Elbows up!

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