Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens
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A few surprising statistics:
The number of people age 60 and older who still have student loan debt has sextupled since 2004, and the amount they owe is up 19-fold, the think tank New America reports; there are now 3.5 million of them, who collectively owe more than $125 billion in student loans.
This is not, by and large, debt that parents assumed to send their kids to college. For three-quarters of federal borrowers 65 and older, it’s money they borrowed for their own educations and have been paying off for decades the Government Accountability Office, or GAO, found.
Some 114,000 Americans have had their Social Security garnished because they couldn’t make their student loan repayments.
And then there is this that is not surprising:
“something we heard a lot in our focus groups is that when someone had a negative experience with their college loans, they were more likely to tell younger generations that higher education wasn’t worth it.”
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The Public Service Loan Forgiveness program shares quite a lot in the blame.
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The Public Service Loan Forgiveness program shares quite a lot in the blame.
@LuFins-Dad said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
The Public Service Loan Forgiveness program shares quite a lot in the blame.
Flesh that one out for me a bit... Why?
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
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The way I read it, you still have to make payments, but after you've been in a public service job for ten years the rest of your loan can be forgiven?
“I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill
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The way I read it, you still have to make payments, but after you've been in a public service job for ten years the rest of your loan can be forgiven?
@Mik said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
The way I read it, you still have to make payments, but after you've been in a public service job for ten years the rest of your loan can be forgiven?
That's correct. And public service has a pretty broad definition - like "underserved areas."
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@LuFins-Dad said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
The Public Service Loan Forgiveness program shares quite a lot in the blame.
Flesh that one out for me a bit... Why?
@Jolly said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
@LuFins-Dad said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
The Public Service Loan Forgiveness program shares quite a lot in the blame.
Flesh that one out for me a bit... Why?
First, it gives prospective borrowers a false belief that they have an out. I’ll dig in deeper a little later as I have to drive to work…
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The way I read it, you still have to make payments, but after you've been in a public service job for ten years the rest of your loan can be forgiven?
@Mik said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
The way I read it, you still have to make payments, but after you've been in a public service job for ten years the rest of your loan can be forgiven?
Nonprofits too, and that is the BIGGEST part of the problem.
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@Mik said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
How many people stay at nonprofits ten years?
They've got their fair share of lifers.
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@Mik said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
How many people stay at nonprofits ten years?
They've got their fair share of lifers.
@Aqua-Letifer said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
@Mik said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
How many people stay at nonprofits ten years?
They've got their fair share of lifers.
The ones that last… Fully 1/3 of NPs shutdown within 10 years, and over half wind up going through structural and financial restructuring within 3 years. The median employment time for NP employees is 18 months. There are estimates that put burnout at 40-50%, and yet they represent 10% of the nation’s workforce.
And the Service Forgiveness Plan can be extremely unforgiving. Go through 8 years of qualified payments and miss a payment? You are back to the beginning. That’s what Biden’s latest round of Loan Forgiveness is addressing. They are basically saying that if you made over 120 payments even over 15 years or 20 years, then there’s forgiveness. That’s going too far, too.
Here’s what’s happened with at least some of these Seniors with student loan debt…A lot of them have 2 degrees… They go to school and get a degree in a field of study and discover that there aren’t adequate job prospects for, maybe the pay is too low for them, or maybe they just aren’t suited for living in the real world… So they’re unhappy, $50K in debt from the degree, and making crappy money. They aren’t even paying back the interest on their loans, so the interest is capitalized and added to the balance, leaving them even further away. They signed up for income based repayment but their income is low. They are now 32 and life sucks. What’s the solution? Go back to school for a better degree! Take out another $50K in loans and get a degree in (insert random degree)… The median pay is twice what you’re making now and you can go to work for an NP where you are doing some public good AND go on the public service repayment plan. WIN! So they graduate with the new degree at 35, now with $125K in debt (the original loans capitalized while going back to the school)… But you have your Masters in Arts Management! They apply for that marketing position at the new Sekoto museum. After all, you LOVED his work when you studied art and he deserves to be known! You can accomplish that! So you get the job making a nice cool $60K. Yes, most other marketing jobs start at $70K, but you are at an arts based NP and the pay is lower… So 18 months later Sekoto is still unknown to most art lovers, the museum is shut down, and over the time you worked there you discovered that most everybody that worked there because they loved Sekoto were pretentious dicks that you couldn’t stand to be around. You are unemployed for a few months, and the 18 qualifying payments on your loan is reset since you aren’t currently employed at an NP and the loan balance is higher since the interest capitalized…You take a job working for a for profit for a few months but an entry level marketing job comes your way working for the Smithsonian… Now we’re talking… Starting wage is even better and better yet, you can start back on the service forgiveness… You’re 37, but ten years from now you’ll only be 47 and there is so much room for advancement… 3 years later there’s a financial crisis, donations and grants go down, and there are layoffs… Back to the starting point… Now you’re 40, and the qualifying payments barely covered the interest, but you are no closer to paying off the loan…Repeat as nauseum…
The Brad
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So have I. It started as a generic, but as it went on, I realized it fit a guy I know well, though there are a few others I know with similar stories.
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I made the mistake once in the free chit chat portion of our team meeting, to ask whether my coworkers felt they were able to apply anything from their formal education, in the workplace. Immediately a pall of taboo descended on the conversation. Silly me. I learned what not to talk about that day.
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I made the mistake once in the free chit chat portion of our team meeting, to ask whether my coworkers felt they were able to apply anything from their formal education, in the workplace. Immediately a pall of taboo descended on the conversation. Silly me. I learned what not to talk about that day.
@Horace said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
I made the mistake once in the free chit chat portion of our team meeting, to ask whether my coworkers felt they were able to apply anything from their formal education, in the workplace. Immediately a pall of taboo descended on the conversation. Silly me. I learned what not to talk about that day.
God, my team would have laughed their asses off. Sounds like they need a bit of lighten-up leadership. An opportunity!
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
@Mik said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
How many people stay at nonprofits ten years?
They've got their fair share of lifers.
The ones that last… Fully 1/3 of NPs shutdown within 10 years, and over half wind up going through structural and financial restructuring within 3 years. The median employment time for NP employees is 18 months. There are estimates that put burnout at 40-50%, and yet they represent 10% of the nation’s workforce.
And the Service Forgiveness Plan can be extremely unforgiving. Go through 8 years of qualified payments and miss a payment? You are back to the beginning. That’s what Biden’s latest round of Loan Forgiveness is addressing. They are basically saying that if you made over 120 payments even over 15 years or 20 years, then there’s forgiveness. That’s going too far, too.
Here’s what’s happened with at least some of these Seniors with student loan debt…A lot of them have 2 degrees… They go to school and get a degree in a field of study and discover that there aren’t adequate job prospects for, maybe the pay is too low for them, or maybe they just aren’t suited for living in the real world… So they’re unhappy, $50K in debt from the degree, and making crappy money. They aren’t even paying back the interest on their loans, so the interest is capitalized and added to the balance, leaving them even further away. They signed up for income based repayment but their income is low. They are now 32 and life sucks. What’s the solution? Go back to school for a better degree! Take out another $50K in loans and get a degree in (insert random degree)… The median pay is twice what you’re making now and you can go to work for an NP where you are doing some public good AND go on the public service repayment plan. WIN! So they graduate with the new degree at 35, now with $125K in debt (the original loans capitalized while going back to the school)… But you have your Masters in Arts Management! They apply for that marketing position at the new Sekoto museum. After all, you LOVED his work when you studied art and he deserves to be known! You can accomplish that! So you get the job making a nice cool $60K. Yes, most other marketing jobs start at $70K, but you are at an arts based NP and the pay is lower… So 18 months later Sekoto is still unknown to most art lovers, the museum is shut down, and over the time you worked there you discovered that most everybody that worked there because they loved Sekoto were pretentious dicks that you couldn’t stand to be around. You are unemployed for a few months, and the 18 qualifying payments on your loan is reset since you aren’t currently employed at an NP and the loan balance is higher since the interest capitalized…You take a job working for a for profit for a few months but an entry level marketing job comes your way working for the Smithsonian… Now we’re talking… Starting wage is even better and better yet, you can start back on the service forgiveness… You’re 37, but ten years from now you’ll only be 47 and there is so much room for advancement… 3 years later there’s a financial crisis, donations and grants go down, and there are layoffs… Back to the starting point… Now you’re 40, and the qualifying payments barely covered the interest, but you are no closer to paying off the loan…Repeat as nauseum…
@LuFins-Dad said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
@Aqua-Letifer said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
@Mik said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
How many people stay at nonprofits ten years?
They've got their fair share of lifers.
The ones that last… Fully 1/3 of NPs shutdown within 10 years, and over half wind up going through structural and financial restructuring within 3 years. The median employment time for NP employees is 18 months. There are estimates that put burnout at 40-50%, and yet they represent 10% of the nation’s workforce.
And the Service Forgiveness Plan can be extremely unforgiving. Go through 8 years of qualified payments and miss a payment? You are back to the beginning. That’s what Biden’s latest round of Loan Forgiveness is addressing. They are basically saying that if you made over 120 payments even over 15 years or 20 years, then there’s forgiveness. That’s going too far, too.
Here’s what’s happened with at least some of these Seniors with student loan debt…A lot of them have 2 degrees… They go to school and get a degree in a field of study and discover that there aren’t adequate job prospects for, maybe the pay is too low for them, or maybe they just aren’t suited for living in the real world… So they’re unhappy, $50K in debt from the degree, and making crappy money. They aren’t even paying back the interest on their loans, so the interest is capitalized and added to the balance, leaving them even further away. They signed up for income based repayment but their income is low. They are now 32 and life sucks. What’s the solution? Go back to school for a better degree! Take out another $50K in loans and get a degree in (insert random degree)… The median pay is twice what you’re making now and you can go to work for an NP where you are doing some public good AND go on the public service repayment plan. WIN! So they graduate with the new degree at 35, now with $125K in debt (the original loans capitalized while going back to the school)… But you have your Masters in Arts Management! They apply for that marketing position at the new Sekoto museum. After all, you LOVED his work when you studied art and he deserves to be known! You can accomplish that! So you get the job making a nice cool $60K. Yes, most other marketing jobs start at $70K, but you are at an arts based NP and the pay is lower… So 18 months later Sekoto is still unknown to most art lovers, the museum is shut down, and over the time you worked there you discovered that most everybody that worked there because they loved Sekoto were pretentious dicks that you couldn’t stand to be around. You are unemployed for a few months, and the 18 qualifying payments on your loan is reset since you aren’t currently employed at an NP and the loan balance is higher since the interest capitalized…You take a job working for a for profit for a few months but an entry level marketing job comes your way working for the Smithsonian… Now we’re talking… Starting wage is even better and better yet, you can start back on the service forgiveness… You’re 37, but ten years from now you’ll only be 47 and there is so much room for advancement… 3 years later there’s a financial crisis, donations and grants go down, and there are layoffs… Back to the starting point… Now you’re 40, and the qualifying payments barely covered the interest, but you are no closer to paying off the loan…Repeat as nauseum…
Your point about pursuing frivolous degrees without a plan to be marketable in the job pool is absolutely spot on. But this problem is a combination of: (1) students not sacking up and trying to compete in the world of commercial enterprise, (2) no one telling them that that's how it works, (3) programs that do them no favors on that front, either, and (4) admissions and loans processes that would never dream of screening for that kind of shit.
Bonus problem: the wokeness of those programs, which can't be ignored.
None of that has anything to do with whether or not it makes sense to study the arts or humanities through a college degree. I mean, do you think it'd be a good idea to ban funding for arts and humanities programs entirely?
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Not at all. And I didn’t call it frivolous. Just limited in employment prospects. In some cases it could be due to available positions in other cases it could be because of payscale vs investment. That doesn’t mean that these subjects shouldn’t be studied. I’m a believer in Liberal Arts Education for undergraduate degrees. I just feel that if somebody is pursuing a degree in musicology (as an example), that they should also be STRONGLY encouraged by the institution to get a 2 year degree equivalent or a minor in another field.
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Not at all. And I didn’t call it frivolous. Just limited in employment prospects. In some cases it could be due to available positions in other cases it could be because of payscale vs investment. That doesn’t mean that these subjects shouldn’t be studied. I’m a believer in Liberal Arts Education for undergraduate degrees. I just feel that if somebody is pursuing a degree in musicology (as an example), that they should also be STRONGLY encouraged by the institution to get a 2 year degree equivalent or a minor in another field.
@LuFins-Dad said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
Not at all. And I didn’t call it frivolous. Just limited in employment prospects. In some cases it could be due to available positions in other cases it could be because of payscale vs investment. That doesn’t mean that these subjects shouldn’t be studied. I’m a believer in Liberal Arts Education for undergraduate degrees. I just feel that if somebody is pursuing a degree in musicology (as an example), that they should also be STRONGLY encouraged by the institution to get a 2 year degree equivalent or a minor in another field.
And I’m also strongly recommending against having a public service repayment program.
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@LuFins-Dad said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
Not at all. And I didn’t call it frivolous. Just limited in employment prospects. In some cases it could be due to available positions in other cases it could be because of payscale vs investment. That doesn’t mean that these subjects shouldn’t be studied. I’m a believer in Liberal Arts Education for undergraduate degrees. I just feel that if somebody is pursuing a degree in musicology (as an example), that they should also be STRONGLY encouraged by the institution to get a 2 year degree equivalent or a minor in another field.
And I’m also strongly recommending against having a public service repayment program.
@LuFins-Dad said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
@LuFins-Dad said in Student Loan Debt Among Senior Citizens:
Not at all. And I didn’t call it frivolous. Just limited in employment prospects.
I don't even think that's true. Look around the room you're in right now. Everything you see was somehow touched by someone with an arts or humanities background. Everything. Even the gas that transports you to and from that place has some B.S. marketing copy attached to it at the pump, written by some jackass with a writing background. And the backing track on the YouTube ad that gas company created was written by a music major.
The arts and humanities are viable as any STEM program. But they're limited in employment prospects because employment prospects aren't taught in those programs. People don't even know what they can do with those skills.
In some cases it could be due to available positions in other cases it could be because of payscale vs investment. That doesn’t mean that these subjects shouldn’t be studied. I’m a believer in Liberal Arts Education for undergraduate degrees. I just feel that if somebody is pursuing a degree in musicology (as an example), that they should also be STRONGLY encouraged by the institution to get a 2 year degree equivalent or a minor in another field.
Why not just teach them how to be more marketable with musicology?
What no one teaches these people is that if you can think up a thing to do for money, and you propose that thing to someone else, and they agree, you have a job.
There's an ex-public school teacher down in Nebraska who got burned out and quit. He decided to make photography his job. He doesn't do weddings, corporate headshots, lessons or sell prints. He pitched an idea to area hospitals, backed up by case studies he found who knows where, that scenic imagery patients are familiar with helps the healing process. So he goes out and takes bigass landscape photos and sells them as murals to hospitals and care centers.
You're likely not going to find a photography program in the country that would teach you how to do that. If they did, more photography majors would be employed, they wouldn't waste their degree as much, wouldn't be looking to you to bail them out and there'd be no more talk of "worthless" arts programs. The subject matter isn't the problem, it's the lack of preparation they're given.
