Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse

The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. Puzzle Time

Puzzle Time

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
32 Posts 5 Posters 507 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nycJ Online
    jon-nyc
    wrote on last edited by
    #19

    Lol.

    There’s a much easier way which people could easily do in their head in real time to make the trick work.

    Only non-witches get due process.

    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
    1 Reply Last reply
    • HoraceH Offline
      HoraceH Offline
      Horace
      wrote on last edited by Horace
      #20

      :::

      Considering 5 random distinct numbers from 1 to 52, the magician could choose either the highest or the lowest number to keep secret, while ordering the remaining four to identify a number between 1 and 24, since there are 24 orderings of four distinct things A,B,C, and D where A is the lowest number, B the second lowest, etc. The magician would choose either the highest or lowest of the 5 numbers, whichever one was within 24 of the remaining highest number, considering 52 to roll over to 1 as numbers increase. This should always be possible. The assistant would identify the hidden number as the indicated offset from the highest of their four cards, rolling over from 52 to 1 if necessary.

      :::

      Education is extremely important.

      KlausK 1 Reply Last reply
      • jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nycJ Online
        jon-nyc
        wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
        #21

        :::

        Yes that should work.

        A conceptually similar solution that is easier to compute in your head in ‘magic trick time’:

        Based in Ax’s observation that there is always at least one suit with two cards within the 5.

        George chooses one of the two cards of the same suit, puts the other on top of the four he hands to Cats.

        With the other three cards he can communicate a number between 1-6. He use that number to indicate how much higher the reserved card is than the top card, allowing for the cycle from K->A->2.

        Example. He puts the queen of clubs on top with the reserved card being the 5. He indicates 6 with the other three cards. Cats knows that from Q you count K,A,2,3,4,5 so the reserved card is a 5.

        What if the reserved card was a six? In that case George would have reserved the Q and handed Cats the 6 on top of the deck, still indicating 6 with the other three cards. (7,8,9,10,J,Q). In other words, by strategically choosing between the two cards of that suit, the additional 3 cards can convey enough information.

        :::

        Only non-witches get due process.

        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
        1 Reply Last reply
        • HoraceH Offline
          HoraceH Offline
          Horace
          wrote on last edited by Horace
          #22

          Yeah that's conceptually identical but for the range being 1-13 rather than 1-52. But with some practice I don't think either is particularly difficult to compute in magic trick time. To identify the number between 0 and 23 based on the order of 4 cards, let hte first card indicate which quartile the number is in, then the second card indicate which tri-cile of that, and the third card which of the two remaining numbers it is.

          Education is extremely important.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • HoraceH Horace

            :::

            Considering 5 random distinct numbers from 1 to 52, the magician could choose either the highest or the lowest number to keep secret, while ordering the remaining four to identify a number between 1 and 24, since there are 24 orderings of four distinct things A,B,C, and D where A is the lowest number, B the second lowest, etc. The magician would choose either the highest or lowest of the 5 numbers, whichever one was within 24 of the remaining highest number, considering 52 to roll over to 1 as numbers increase. This should always be possible. The assistant would identify the hidden number as the indicated offset from the highest of their four cards, rolling over from 52 to 1 if necessary.

            :::

            KlausK Offline
            KlausK Offline
            Klaus
            wrote on last edited by
            #23

            @Horace said in Puzzle Time:

            The magician would choose either the highest or lowest of the 5 numbers, whichever one was within 24 of the remaining highest number

            Ah yes, that was the puzzle piece I was missing.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • HoraceH Offline
              HoraceH Offline
              Horace
              wrote on last edited by
              #24

              jon where do you get these puzzles? Or do you invent them?

              Education is extremely important.

              1 Reply Last reply
              • jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nycJ Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on last edited by
                #25

                Mostly from a mailing list from a university ‘math circle‘ we were involved with in NC

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                1 Reply Last reply
                • HoraceH Offline
                  HoraceH Offline
                  Horace
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #26

                  Today it is my responsibility to present a game during a department zoom meeting that we can all participate in. I'm going to give them this puzzle, but I'll have them try to solve it as a group rather than individually and competitively. Should be fun. Maybe I'll be surprised and they'll come up with a solution quickly.

                  Education is extremely important.

                  jon-nycJ 1 Reply Last reply
                  • jon-nycJ Online
                    jon-nycJ Online
                    jon-nyc
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #27

                    Cool. make sure you say 'copyright jon-nyc 2020'.

                    Only non-witches get due process.

                    • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                    1 Reply Last reply
                    • jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nycJ Online
                      jon-nyc
                      wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                      #28

                      I've since learned that this very method (using top card as suit indicator and three cards as identifier) was used by a magician from the 30s. Probably invented by him.

                      Only non-witches get due process.

                      • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                      HoraceH 1 Reply Last reply
                      • jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nycJ Online
                        jon-nyc
                        wrote on last edited by jon-nyc
                        #29

                        William Fitch Cheney, was his name. Apparently a mathematician and magician.

                        Only non-witches get due process.

                        • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • jon-nycJ jon-nyc

                          I've since learned that this very method (using top card as suit indicator and three cards as identifier) was used by a magician from the 30s. Probably invented by him.

                          HoraceH Offline
                          HoraceH Offline
                          Horace
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #30

                          @jon-nyc said in Puzzle Time:

                          I've since learned that this very method (using top card as suit indicator and three cards as identifier) was used by a magician from the 30s. Probably invented by him.

                          It's a garbage method compared to mine.

                          Education is extremely important.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • HoraceH Horace

                            Today it is my responsibility to present a game during a department zoom meeting that we can all participate in. I'm going to give them this puzzle, but I'll have them try to solve it as a group rather than individually and competitively. Should be fun. Maybe I'll be surprised and they'll come up with a solution quickly.

                            jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nycJ Online
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #31

                            @Horace said in Puzzle Time:

                            Today it is my responsibility to present a game during a department zoom meeting that we can all participate in. I'm going to give them this puzzle, but I'll have them try to solve it as a group rather than individually and competitively. Should be fun. Maybe I'll be surprised and they'll come up with a solution quickly.

                            How'd it go?

                            Only non-witches get due process.

                            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                            1 Reply Last reply
                            • HoraceH Offline
                              HoraceH Offline
                              Horace
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #32

                              There was a surprise guest and thus no game-time during that meeting. Then the following week there was again no game time. I suppose I'll be on the hook but only if we ever do another game time. Nobody likes these game times during these meetings, but games are fun, and even if nobody has any fun, they are still fun. Just ask everybody professionally obligated to attend the zoom meeting.

                              Education is extremely important.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              Reply
                              • Reply as topic
                              Log in to reply
                              • Oldest to Newest
                              • Newest to Oldest
                              • Most Votes


                              • Login

                              • Don't have an account? Register

                              • Login or register to search.
                              • First post
                                Last post
                              0
                              • Categories
                              • Recent
                              • Tags
                              • Popular
                              • Users
                              • Groups