Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
I bet he was a riot at the company Christmas party.
I've known a few Timothy's. Miserable bastards, one and all.
The name means 'Honoring God' incidentally. One Timothy I knew particularly well had a younger brother named 'Geoffrey', which means 'A gift from God'. He would occasionally raise this point with his parents.
Those weren’t written by Timothy but by Paul. Timothy was the recipient.
@LuFins-Dad said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
Timothy was the recipient.
They frequently are. So you're saying Timothy's aren't all bad? They could possibly still get invited to parties?
With this kind of advice it's so much better to give than to receive.
That Paul guy. As soon as he got his eyesight back he just wrote letters like they were going out of fashion.
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(First off, I will say that I dont know much about the Baptist religion or the Bible).
But, does the Bible say that woman cant be pastors or priests? I read/heard somewhere (maybe here) that the Catholic church a long time ago had woman priests.
To me (and my admittedly small knowledge of it), the Bible seems like one of those books that it is easy to find something in there to support your viewpoint, and someone on the opposite side can do the same. And both point to the Bible to prove they are right.
@taiwan_girl said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
To me (and my admittedly small knowledge of it), the Bible seems like one of those books that it is easy to find something in there to support your viewpoint, and someone on the opposite side can do the same. And both point to the Bible to prove they are right.
Yes. When you hear a Christian say they believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, what they really mean is that they believe in the inerrancy of their interpretation of the Bible. Which seems rather hubristic if you think about it.
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People say there's no God, but if that was the case how could you explain the voices in my head telling me to strip naked and run through the streets carrying a marrow?
Answer me that, atheists!
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The big issue is whether you believe Paul was divinely inspired in those particular beliefs and instructions.
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The big issue is whether you believe Paul was divinely inspired in those particular beliefs and instructions.
@LuFins-Dad said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
The big issue is whether you believe Paul was divinely inspired in those particular beliefs and instructions.
Doesn't it make you wonder why Jesus focused on different things if this was the main message God wanted pushing by a guy who, even the most charitable of people should be able to agree, was rather prone to extreme views at least prior to his conversion?
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@LuFins-Dad said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
The big issue is whether you believe Paul was divinely inspired in those particular beliefs and instructions.
Doesn't it make you wonder why Jesus focused on different things if this was the main message God wanted pushing by a guy who, even the most charitable of people should be able to agree, was rather prone to extreme views at least prior to his conversion?
@Doctor-Phibes said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
@LuFins-Dad said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
The big issue is whether you believe Paul was divinely inspired in those particular beliefs and instructions.
Doesn't it make you wonder why Jesus focused on different things if this was the main message God wanted pushing by a guy who, even the most charitable of people should be able to agree, was rather prone to extreme views at least prior to his conversion?
Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to rewrite it. If you'll pull your Bible out, and check a lot of what Jesus is saying, a lot is a repeat or a rephrase of many passages in the OT. And while we live in an Age of Grace, not Law, many things remained the same, just as God is the same.
God used many people for his Glory that did some mighty bad things. A peeping tom, who lusted after a woman so much that he had her husband killed so that he could marry her, was one of the great men of the Bible. Saul persecuted Christians unto death, but later wrote the Pauline Letters and died for his beliefs. Another great man of the Bible.
Man is an imperfect being and falls down a lot in the sight of God. Even Moses did not get to cross into the Promised Land, because he disobeyed God and struck the rock for water. Maybe by using imperfect men for His perfect works, God is sending a not too unsubtle message to the rest of his imperfect flock.
Humble yourself and repent. Be saved. Rise and be better than you were. Work towards a better state of Grace.
It's hard, but it works.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
@LuFins-Dad said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
The big issue is whether you believe Paul was divinely inspired in those particular beliefs and instructions.
Doesn't it make you wonder why Jesus focused on different things if this was the main message God wanted pushing by a guy who, even the most charitable of people should be able to agree, was rather prone to extreme views at least prior to his conversion?
Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to rewrite it. If you'll pull your Bible out, and check a lot of what Jesus is saying, a lot is a repeat or a rephrase of many passages in the OT. And while we live in an Age of Grace, not Law, many things remained the same, just as God is the same.
God used many people for his Glory that did some mighty bad things. A peeping tom, who lusted after a woman so much that he had her husband killed so that he could marry her, was one of the great men of the Bible. Saul persecuted Christians unto death, but later wrote the Pauline Letters and died for his beliefs. Another great man of the Bible.
Man is an imperfect being and falls down a lot in the sight of God. Even Moses did not get to cross into the Promised Land, because he disobeyed God and struck the rock for water. Maybe by using imperfect men for His perfect works, God is sending a not too unsubtle message to the rest of his imperfect flock.
Humble yourself and repent. Be saved. Rise and be better than you were. Work towards a better state of Grace.
It's hard, but it works.
God used many people for his Glory that did some mighty bad things. A peeping tom, who lusted after a woman so much that he had her husband killed so that he could marry her, was one of the great men of the Bible. Saul persecuted Christians unto death, but later wrote the Pauline Letters and died for his beliefs. Another great man of the Bible.
Apologetics.
I don’t buy a word of it.
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There's two alternatives:
- God, a being of infinite power and majesty really cares about the gender of the person leading people in their adulation of him.
- Paul was a product of his time and thought of women as being somewhat inferior.
Which seems more likely?
Yes, I know, the book says the former. But who compiled the book?
The truth is out there somewhere.
I was only joking
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I don’t like how Christians now get criticized for following the tenets of their religion (even though they may differ from sect to sect).
It’s tough to be an openly Christian person in the prevailing culture. (At least the circles I run in)
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I don’t like how Christians now get criticized for following the tenets of their religion (even though they may differ from sect to sect).
It’s tough to be an openly Christian person in the prevailing culture. (At least the circles I run in)
@xenon said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
I don’t like how Christians now get criticized for following the tenets of their religion
'Now'?
We used to set fire to people who were disobedient. If anything, I'd say the current situation is a slight improvement.
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@xenon said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
I don’t like how Christians now get criticized for following the tenets of their religion
'Now'?
We used to set fire to people who were disobedient. If anything, I'd say the current situation is a slight improvement.
@Doctor-Phibes Lots of things are better relative to the 1600s. My comment was more along the lines that only certain political beliefs are kosher in a corporate environment and many Christian tenets fall outside of that.
It’d be better if we all kept our political shit to ourselves. We clearly can’t seem to tolerate politics different than our own (the collective “we”)
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@Doctor-Phibes Lots of things are better relative to the 1600s. My comment was more along the lines that only certain political beliefs are kosher in a corporate environment and many Christian tenets fall outside of that.
It’d be better if we all kept our political shit to ourselves. We clearly can’t seem to tolerate politics different than our own (the collective “we”)
@xenon said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
@Doctor-Phibes Lots of things are better relative to the 1600s. My comment was more along the lines that only certain political beliefs are kosher in a corporate environment and many Christian tenets fall outside of that.
As a vaguely related aside, I must admit from a cultural perspective I much preferred working in a small company - nowadays what would be called a start-up. The personal relationships were much stronger, and there wasn't this pressure to confirm politically, religiously and so on - quite the opposite in fact, the daytime banter sometimes got quite heated. I made genuine friends there, which doesn't happen in the same way in the larger office environment. When I left, I actually shed a few tears, because I knew what I was leaving.
Obviously, the money was terrible. It pays much better to be a corporate drone.
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I don’t like how Christians now get criticized for following the tenets of their religion (even though they may differ from sect to sect).
It’s tough to be an openly Christian person in the prevailing culture. (At least the circles I run in)
@xenon said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
I don’t like how Christians now get criticized for following the tenets of their religion (even though they may differ from sect to sect).
It's not a Christian-specific phenomenon. Muslims and Jews get the same treatment too when they follow tenets that are further away from the prevailing societal norm at particular time and space.
Heck, it's not even specific to followers of religions. Confucian scholars were criticized for following old teachings too strictly or not knowing how to adapt to new societal norms.
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When I ultimately take a new position, I don't want to hear about or discuss political or religious views in, or outside the office TBH.
@mark said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
When I ultimately take a new position, I don't want to hear about or discuss political or religious views in, or outside the office TBH.
That's what I said! Then I got a job as the church caretaker.
It didn't end well.
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There's two alternatives:
- God, a being of infinite power and majesty really cares about the gender of the person leading people in their adulation of him.
- Paul was a product of his time and thought of women as being somewhat inferior.
Which seems more likely?
Yes, I know, the book says the former. But who compiled the book?
The truth is out there somewhere.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
There's two alternatives:
- God, a being of infinite power and majesty really cares about the gender of the person leading people in their adulation of him.
- Paul was a product of his time and thought of women as being somewhat inferior.
Which seems more likely?
Yes, I know, the book says the former. But who compiled the book?
The truth is out there somewhere.
I'll take what's behind Door #1, please.
God, being of infinite power and majesty, created male and female, He gave each unique talents and responsibilities. He also gave them shared responsibilities.
The book is The Book
. I'm not Presbyterian or some other Christian denomination that has fallen into apostasy. I believe the Bible is inerrant and the inspired Word of GodBaptists have a strong history of the Priesthood of the Believer. There is no intercessory between man and God. There is only the Holy Word and trying to study and walk in the light it gives us.
If it makes one uncomfortable or convicted, so be it. It's always about trying to improve while on the journey.
Most people would be better to quit expending so much effort on chasing or trying to justify loopholes, and just live the Word.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
There's two alternatives:
- God, a being of infinite power and majesty really cares about the gender of the person leading people in their adulation of him.
- Paul was a product of his time and thought of women as being somewhat inferior.
Which seems more likely?
Yes, I know, the book says the former. But who compiled the book?
The truth is out there somewhere.
I'll take what's behind Door #1, please.
God, being of infinite power and majesty, created male and female, He gave each unique talents and responsibilities. He also gave them shared responsibilities.
The book is The Book
. I'm not Presbyterian or some other Christian denomination that has fallen into apostasy. I believe the Bible is inerrant and the inspired Word of GodBaptists have a strong history of the Priesthood of the Believer. There is no intercessory between man and God. There is only the Holy Word and trying to study and walk in the light it gives us.
If it makes one uncomfortable or convicted, so be it. It's always about trying to improve while on the journey.
Most people would be better to quit expending so much effort on chasing or trying to justify loopholes, and just live the Word.
@Jolly said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
Baptists have a strong history of the Priesthood of the Believer. There is no intercessory between man and God. There is only the Holy Word and trying to study and walk in the light it gives us.
If it makes one uncomfortable or convicted, so be it. It's always about trying to improve while on the journey.
Most people would be better to quit expending so much effort on chasing or trying to justify loopholes, and just live the Word.
I'm sure there are others who are much better qualified to talk about the history of Christianity than me, but my understanding is that the belief in the literal truth of The Book as interpreted now isn't something that goes back to the beginning of the church, but was something that developed over time.
So, in some ways that's a modern interpretation too.
The Roman Catholics think they're the one true church, too, going back to the first leader of the church.
There's an old joke that ends with the punchline 'Die, heretic scum!', which I'm too lazy to type out, but I think we've all heard.
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There's two alternatives:
- God, a being of infinite power and majesty really cares about the gender of the person leading people in their adulation of him.
- Paul was a product of his time and thought of women as being somewhat inferior.
Which seems more likely?
Yes, I know, the book says the former. But who compiled the book?
The truth is out there somewhere.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
There's two alternatives:
- God, a being of infinite power and majesty really cares about the gender of the person leading people in their adulation of him.
- Paul was a product of his time and thought of women as being somewhat inferior.
Which seems more likely?
Yes, I know, the book says the former. But who compiled the book?
The truth is out there somewhere.
I would vote for #2. Again, it seems like if something literal in the Bible fits what a person want to prove, then the Bible should be taken literally. However, if the literal words in the Bible dont make sense or are really outrageous, then the person can say that the Bible is giving an analogy and should not be taken literally.
