Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors
-
https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2023/06/14/southern-baptists-rick-warren-vote/
The issue of a woman serving as a church’s pastor “is one of fundamental biblical authority that does violate both the doctrine and the order of the SBC. It’s inescapable,” prominent theologian Albert Mohler said to applause.
-
BTW, the vote was around 90% against accepting Warren back into the fellowship (he had reapplied).
His comment:
“There are people who want to take the SBC back to the 1950s, when white men ruled supreme and when the woman’s place was in the home,” he said. “There are others who want to take it back 500 years to the time of the Reformation. I say we need to take the church back to the first century. The church at its birth was the church at its best.”
Well, sapphire, if you'd like to take the Church back to the first century, hurry up and sell Saddleback. Give that money to the poor and needy. Divide your thousands of members up into collections of three or four families and let them meet and worship in people's homes.
The Bible is quite plain in its delineation of women's roles within the Church. They hold many important jobs and roles, but they don't serve as deacons or pastors. In the SBC, the disagreement is the Complimentarians vs. the Egalitarians. And it wasn't even a thing, until the rise of Feminism in modern culture of the 1970's.
In fact, I view the leadership roles in the church in even a stricter sense than the SBC. Except under a very narrow set of circumstances, a divorced man should not serve as a pastor or as a deacon in the church. No homosexual may serve as a pastor. I don't think men addicted to strong drink or drugs should serve as a pastor.
And I think we can all agree, that any pastor abusing his authority within the church, for any sexual gratification with anybody, need to be shown the door and the complete fellowship of the church should be withdrawn. Methodist churches have a nice procedure for church trials...I wish the Baptists would adopt it. It's fair and allows for Justice.
-
(First off, I will say that I dont know much about the Baptist religion or the Bible).
But, does the Bible say that woman cant be pastors or priests? I read/heard somewhere (maybe here) that the Catholic church a long time ago had woman priests.
To me (and my admittedly small knowledge of it), the Bible seems like one of those books that it is easy to find something in there to support your viewpoint, and someone on the opposite side can do the same. And both point to the Bible to prove they are right.
-
That's when you nitpick the Bible or you don't read it in context.
From 1 Timothy...
8 Therefore, I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or argument. 9 Also, the women are to dress themselves in modest clothing, with decency and good sense, not with elaborate hairstyles, gold, pearls, or expensive apparel, 10 but with good works, as is proper for women who profess to worship God. 11 A woman is to learn quietly with full submission. 12 I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and transgressed. 15 But she will be saved through childbearing, if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with good sense.
-
The first cite was the CSB translation, this is KJV from 1 Timothy 3, talking about pastors...
This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
-
What makes a Baptist?
Biblical authority (Matt 24:35; 1Pet 1:23; 2Tim 3:16–3:17)
Autonomy of the local church (Matt 18:15–18:17; 1Cor 6:1–6:3)
Priesthood of all believers (1Pet 2:5–2:9; 1Tim 2:5)
Two ordinances (believer's baptism and the Lord's Supper) (Acts 2:41–2:47; 1Cor 11:23–11:32)
Individual soul liberty (Rom 14:5–14:12)
Saved and baptized church membership (Acts 2:41–2:47; 1Cor 12:12; 2Cor 6:14; Eph 4:3)
Two offices of the church (elder and deacon) (1Tim 3:1–3:13) -
I bet he was a riot at the company Christmas party.
I've known a few Timothy's. Miserable bastards, one and all.
The name means 'Honoring God' incidentally. One Timothy I knew particularly well had a younger brother named 'Geoffrey', which means 'A gift from God'. He would occasionally raise this point with his parents.
-
I bet he was a riot at the company Christmas party.
I've known a few Timothy's. Miserable bastards, one and all.
The name means 'Honoring God' incidentally. One Timothy I knew particularly well had a younger brother named 'Geoffrey', which means 'A gift from God'. He would occasionally raise this point with his parents.
@Doctor-Phibes said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
I bet he was a riot at the company Christmas party.
I've known a few Timothy's. Miserable bastards, one and all.
The name means 'Honoring God' incidentally. One Timothy I knew particularly well had a younger brother named 'Geoffrey', which means 'A gift from God'. He would occasionally raise this point with his parents.
Those weren’t written by Timothy but by Paul. Timothy was the recipient.
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
I bet he was a riot at the company Christmas party.
I've known a few Timothy's. Miserable bastards, one and all.
The name means 'Honoring God' incidentally. One Timothy I knew particularly well had a younger brother named 'Geoffrey', which means 'A gift from God'. He would occasionally raise this point with his parents.
Those weren’t written by Timothy but by Paul. Timothy was the recipient.
@LuFins-Dad said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
Timothy was the recipient.
They frequently are. So you're saying Timothy's aren't all bad? They could possibly still get invited to parties?
With this kind of advice it's so much better to give than to receive.
That Paul guy. As soon as he got his eyesight back he just wrote letters like they were going out of fashion.
-
(First off, I will say that I dont know much about the Baptist religion or the Bible).
But, does the Bible say that woman cant be pastors or priests? I read/heard somewhere (maybe here) that the Catholic church a long time ago had woman priests.
To me (and my admittedly small knowledge of it), the Bible seems like one of those books that it is easy to find something in there to support your viewpoint, and someone on the opposite side can do the same. And both point to the Bible to prove they are right.
@taiwan_girl said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
To me (and my admittedly small knowledge of it), the Bible seems like one of those books that it is easy to find something in there to support your viewpoint, and someone on the opposite side can do the same. And both point to the Bible to prove they are right.
Yes. When you hear a Christian say they believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, what they really mean is that they believe in the inerrancy of their interpretation of the Bible. Which seems rather hubristic if you think about it.
-
People say there's no God, but if that was the case how could you explain the voices in my head telling me to strip naked and run through the streets carrying a marrow?
Answer me that, atheists!
-
The big issue is whether you believe Paul was divinely inspired in those particular beliefs and instructions.
-
The big issue is whether you believe Paul was divinely inspired in those particular beliefs and instructions.
@LuFins-Dad said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
The big issue is whether you believe Paul was divinely inspired in those particular beliefs and instructions.
Doesn't it make you wonder why Jesus focused on different things if this was the main message God wanted pushing by a guy who, even the most charitable of people should be able to agree, was rather prone to extreme views at least prior to his conversion?
-
@LuFins-Dad said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
The big issue is whether you believe Paul was divinely inspired in those particular beliefs and instructions.
Doesn't it make you wonder why Jesus focused on different things if this was the main message God wanted pushing by a guy who, even the most charitable of people should be able to agree, was rather prone to extreme views at least prior to his conversion?
@Doctor-Phibes said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
@LuFins-Dad said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
The big issue is whether you believe Paul was divinely inspired in those particular beliefs and instructions.
Doesn't it make you wonder why Jesus focused on different things if this was the main message God wanted pushing by a guy who, even the most charitable of people should be able to agree, was rather prone to extreme views at least prior to his conversion?
Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to rewrite it. If you'll pull your Bible out, and check a lot of what Jesus is saying, a lot is a repeat or a rephrase of many passages in the OT. And while we live in an Age of Grace, not Law, many things remained the same, just as God is the same.
God used many people for his Glory that did some mighty bad things. A peeping tom, who lusted after a woman so much that he had her husband killed so that he could marry her, was one of the great men of the Bible. Saul persecuted Christians unto death, but later wrote the Pauline Letters and died for his beliefs. Another great man of the Bible.
Man is an imperfect being and falls down a lot in the sight of God. Even Moses did not get to cross into the Promised Land, because he disobeyed God and struck the rock for water. Maybe by using imperfect men for His perfect works, God is sending a not too unsubtle message to the rest of his imperfect flock.
Humble yourself and repent. Be saved. Rise and be better than you were. Work towards a better state of Grace.
It's hard, but it works.
-
@Doctor-Phibes said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
@LuFins-Dad said in Southern Baptists Eject Churches for Having Female Pastors:
The big issue is whether you believe Paul was divinely inspired in those particular beliefs and instructions.
Doesn't it make you wonder why Jesus focused on different things if this was the main message God wanted pushing by a guy who, even the most charitable of people should be able to agree, was rather prone to extreme views at least prior to his conversion?
Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to rewrite it. If you'll pull your Bible out, and check a lot of what Jesus is saying, a lot is a repeat or a rephrase of many passages in the OT. And while we live in an Age of Grace, not Law, many things remained the same, just as God is the same.
God used many people for his Glory that did some mighty bad things. A peeping tom, who lusted after a woman so much that he had her husband killed so that he could marry her, was one of the great men of the Bible. Saul persecuted Christians unto death, but later wrote the Pauline Letters and died for his beliefs. Another great man of the Bible.
Man is an imperfect being and falls down a lot in the sight of God. Even Moses did not get to cross into the Promised Land, because he disobeyed God and struck the rock for water. Maybe by using imperfect men for His perfect works, God is sending a not too unsubtle message to the rest of his imperfect flock.
Humble yourself and repent. Be saved. Rise and be better than you were. Work towards a better state of Grace.
It's hard, but it works.
God used many people for his Glory that did some mighty bad things. A peeping tom, who lusted after a woman so much that he had her husband killed so that he could marry her, was one of the great men of the Bible. Saul persecuted Christians unto death, but later wrote the Pauline Letters and died for his beliefs. Another great man of the Bible.
Apologetics.
I don’t buy a word of it.
