Bari Weiss resigns from the Times
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wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 17:54 last edited by
That letter could have been written by a German editor in 1933.
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wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:01 last edited by
"Twitter has become its ultimate editor. As the ethics and mores of that platform have become those of the paper, the paper itself has increasingly become a kind of performance space. Stories are chosen and told in a way to satisfy the narrowest of audiences, rather than to allow a curious public to read about the world and then draw their own conclusions."
If this is true, it is unbearably sad.
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wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:11 last edited by
"As places like The Times and other once-great journalistic institutions betray their standards and lose sight of their principles, Americans still hunger for news that is accurate, opinions that are vital, and debate that is sincere. 'An independent press is not a liberal ideal or a progressive ideal or a democratic ideal. It’s an American ideal,' you said a few years ago. I couldn’t agree more. America is a great country that deserves a great newspaper.
"America is a great country that deserves a great newspaper."
This letter feels like an obituary.
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wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:19 last edited by
I was just yesterday mentioning to Renauda that pop culture controls the messaging now, rather than any central authority or even any theoretically decentralized journalism. It's why it's so important to allow pop culture to contain conservative voices. Too bad so many rank and file lefties are too caught up in the excitement of their self righteous moral superiority complexes to allow for that.
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wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:20 last edited by
Wow. Thanks for this Jon.
So well said on so many levels.
Should be required reading. God save the Republic.
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wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:21 last edited by
Quite a letter. And I think he is right.
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wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:23 last edited by
She
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wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:24 last edited by
As opposed to 'she/her'. She's definitely a 'she', not a 'she/her'.
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I was just yesterday mentioning to Renauda that pop culture controls the messaging now, rather than any central authority or even any theoretically decentralized journalism. It's why it's so important to allow pop culture to contain conservative voices. Too bad so many rank and file lefties are too caught up in the excitement of their self righteous moral superiority complexes to allow for that.
wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:25 last edited by@Horace said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:
I was just yesterday mentioning to Renauda that pop culture controls the messaging now, rather than any central authority or even any theoretically decentralized journalism. It's why it's so important to allow pop culture to contain conservative voices. Too bad so many rank and file lefties are too caught up in the excitement of their self righteous moral superiority complexes to allow for that.
I think you're missing the point. If conservatives had a monopoly influence on popular culture, we'd have the exact same problem here because social media mandates both the coverage and the way in which that coverage is portrayed. The bigger problem, one that Weiss points out, is the manner in which NYT tries to win your attention.
If we don't fix that, then the only "alternatives" available to us are reactionary conservative outlets who play the same tricks on a different audience. Which we already have.
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"Twitter has become its ultimate editor. As the ethics and mores of that platform have become those of the paper, the paper itself has increasingly become a kind of performance space. Stories are chosen and told in a way to satisfy the narrowest of audiences, rather than to allow a curious public to read about the world and then draw their own conclusions."
If this is true, it is unbearably sad.
wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:36 last edited by@Catseye3 said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:
"Twitter has become its ultimate editor. As the ethics and mores of that platform have become those of the paper, the paper itself has increasingly become a kind of performance space. Stories are chosen and told in a way to satisfy the narrowest of audiences, rather than to allow a curious public to read about the world and then draw their own conclusions."
If this is true, it is unbearably sad.
We've talked the way the news is shaped to fit the narrative at the NYT more than once.
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wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:39 last edited by
Wow.
Is there some kind of reaction from the NYT on this letter?
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wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:40 last edited by
This is all so fresh.
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wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:40 last edited by
It’ll be interesting to see how it’s covered.
Not just at the times, but by the media beat guy at the Post.
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@Horace said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:
I was just yesterday mentioning to Renauda that pop culture controls the messaging now, rather than any central authority or even any theoretically decentralized journalism. It's why it's so important to allow pop culture to contain conservative voices. Too bad so many rank and file lefties are too caught up in the excitement of their self righteous moral superiority complexes to allow for that.
I think you're missing the point. If conservatives had a monopoly influence on popular culture, we'd have the exact same problem here because social media mandates both the coverage and the way in which that coverage is portrayed. The bigger problem, one that Weiss points out, is the manner in which NYT tries to win your attention.
If we don't fix that, then the only "alternatives" available to us are reactionary conservative outlets who play the same tricks on a different audience. Which we already have.
wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:45 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:
@Horace said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:
I was just yesterday mentioning to Renauda that pop culture controls the messaging now, rather than any central authority or even any theoretically decentralized journalism. It's why it's so important to allow pop culture to contain conservative voices. Too bad so many rank and file lefties are too caught up in the excitement of their self righteous moral superiority complexes to allow for that.
I think you're missing the point. If conservatives had a monopoly influence on popular culture, we'd have the exact same problem here because social media mandates both the coverage and the way in which that coverage is portrayed. The bigger problem, one that Weiss points out, is the manner in which NYT tries to win your attention.
If we don't fix that, then the only "alternatives" available to us are reactionary conservative outlets who play the same tricks on a different audience. Which we already have.
I wasn't advocating for a different tribe to exert authoritarian pop culture power. I was advocating for pop culture to accept as a basic and important value that different viewpoints should be accepted and not canceled.
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@Aqua-Letifer said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:
@Horace said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:
I was just yesterday mentioning to Renauda that pop culture controls the messaging now, rather than any central authority or even any theoretically decentralized journalism. It's why it's so important to allow pop culture to contain conservative voices. Too bad so many rank and file lefties are too caught up in the excitement of their self righteous moral superiority complexes to allow for that.
I think you're missing the point. If conservatives had a monopoly influence on popular culture, we'd have the exact same problem here because social media mandates both the coverage and the way in which that coverage is portrayed. The bigger problem, one that Weiss points out, is the manner in which NYT tries to win your attention.
If we don't fix that, then the only "alternatives" available to us are reactionary conservative outlets who play the same tricks on a different audience. Which we already have.
I wasn't advocating for a different tribe to exert authoritarian pop culture power. I was advocating for pop culture to accept as a basic and important value that different viewpoints should be accepted and not canceled.
wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:48 last edited by@Horace said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:
I wasn't advocating for a different tribe to exert authoritarian pop culture power. I was advocating for pop culture to accept as a basic and important value that different viewpoints should be accepted and not canceled.
Yikes. Well, good luck with that. I have no idea how to make that happen since its virtue alone is obviously no incentive. Then again, like literary and artistic movements, maybe we'll just get bored of this shit and want to go in a different direction.
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wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:49 last edited by
She also had signed the “Harper’s” letter.
I’m all for an adult conversation played out on the merits of the piece, hoping against a flame war on both sides.
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@Horace said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:
I wasn't advocating for a different tribe to exert authoritarian pop culture power. I was advocating for pop culture to accept as a basic and important value that different viewpoints should be accepted and not canceled.
Yikes. Well, good luck with that. I have no idea how to make that happen since its virtue alone is obviously no incentive. Then again, like literary and artistic movements, maybe we'll just get bored of this shit and want to go in a different direction.
wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:58 last edited by@Aqua-Letifer said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:
@Horace said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:
I wasn't advocating for a different tribe to exert authoritarian pop culture power. I was advocating for pop culture to accept as a basic and important value that different viewpoints should be accepted and not canceled.
Yikes. Well, good luck with that. I have no idea how to make that happen since its virtue alone is obviously no incentive. Then again, like literary and artistic movements, maybe we'll just get bored of this shit and want to go in a different direction.
America has had in its past pop cultures that valued diversity of thought. The NYT was based on it, as she wrote in the letter. I presume that at the time, it was thought of as a cool and hip value to hold. These days, it's cool and hip to consider those values to be dog whistles for racists.
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It’ll be interesting to see how it’s covered.
Not just at the times, but by the media beat guy at the Post.
wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 21:32 last edited by@jon-nyc said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:
It’ll be interesting to see how it’s covered.
Not just at the times, but by the media beat guy at the Post.
How it's covered? As a wise man once said, With a pillow, until it quits moving.
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@jon-nyc said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:
It’ll be interesting to see how it’s covered.
Not just at the times, but by the media beat guy at the Post.
How it's covered? As a wise man once said, With a pillow, until it quits moving.
wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 21:34 last edited by@Jolly said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:
@jon-nyc said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:
It’ll be interesting to see how it’s covered.
Not just at the times, but by the media beat guy at the Post.
How it's covered? As a wise man once said, With a pillow, until it quits moving.
I’ve noticed that CNN has a way of covering an issue it doesn’t want to but not having it show up on the website on the first page. Clever.
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wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 21:36 last edited by
jon, you're our resident CNN expert. How do they do that?