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The New Coffee Room

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  3. Bari Weiss resigns from the Times

Bari Weiss resigns from the Times

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  • J Offline
    J Offline
    Jolly
    wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 17:54 last edited by
    #4

    That letter could have been written by a German editor in 1933.

    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

    1 Reply Last reply
    • C Offline
      C Offline
      Catseye3
      wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:01 last edited by
      #5

      "Twitter has become its ultimate editor. As the ethics and mores of that platform have become those of the paper, the paper itself has increasingly become a kind of performance space. Stories are chosen and told in a way to satisfy the narrowest of audiences, rather than to allow a curious public to read about the world and then draw their own conclusions."

      If this is true, it is unbearably sad.

      Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

      J 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jul 2020, 18:36
      • C Offline
        C Offline
        Catseye3
        wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:11 last edited by
        #6

        "As places like The Times and other once-great journalistic institutions betray their standards and lose sight of their principles, Americans still hunger for news that is accurate, opinions that are vital, and debate that is sincere. 'An independent press is not a liberal ideal or a progressive ideal or a democratic ideal. It’s an American ideal,' you said a few years ago. I couldn’t agree more. America is a great country that deserves a great newspaper.

        "America is a great country that deserves a great newspaper."

        This letter feels like an obituary.

        Success is measured by your discipline and inner peace. – Mike Ditka

        1 Reply Last reply
        • H Offline
          H Offline
          Horace
          wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:19 last edited by
          #7

          I was just yesterday mentioning to Renauda that pop culture controls the messaging now, rather than any central authority or even any theoretically decentralized journalism. It's why it's so important to allow pop culture to contain conservative voices. Too bad so many rank and file lefties are too caught up in the excitement of their self righteous moral superiority complexes to allow for that.

          Education is extremely important.

          A 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jul 2020, 18:25
          • L Offline
            L Offline
            Loki
            wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:20 last edited by
            #8

            Wow. Thanks for this Jon.

            So well said on so many levels.

            Should be required reading. God save the Republic.

            1 Reply Last reply
            • M Offline
              M Offline
              Mik
              wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:21 last edited by
              #9

              Quite a letter. And I think he is right.

              “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

              1 Reply Last reply
              • J Online
                J Online
                jon-nyc
                wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:23 last edited by
                #10

                She

                Only non-witches get due process.

                • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                1 Reply Last reply
                • J Online
                  J Online
                  jon-nyc
                  wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:24 last edited by
                  #11

                  As opposed to 'she/her'. She's definitely a 'she', not a 'she/her'.

                  Only non-witches get due process.

                  • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                  1 Reply Last reply
                  • H Horace
                    14 Jul 2020, 18:19

                    I was just yesterday mentioning to Renauda that pop culture controls the messaging now, rather than any central authority or even any theoretically decentralized journalism. It's why it's so important to allow pop culture to contain conservative voices. Too bad so many rank and file lefties are too caught up in the excitement of their self righteous moral superiority complexes to allow for that.

                    A Offline
                    A Offline
                    Aqua Letifer
                    wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:25 last edited by
                    #12

                    @Horace said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:

                    I was just yesterday mentioning to Renauda that pop culture controls the messaging now, rather than any central authority or even any theoretically decentralized journalism. It's why it's so important to allow pop culture to contain conservative voices. Too bad so many rank and file lefties are too caught up in the excitement of their self righteous moral superiority complexes to allow for that.

                    I think you're missing the point. If conservatives had a monopoly influence on popular culture, we'd have the exact same problem here because social media mandates both the coverage and the way in which that coverage is portrayed. The bigger problem, one that Weiss points out, is the manner in which NYT tries to win your attention.

                    If we don't fix that, then the only "alternatives" available to us are reactionary conservative outlets who play the same tricks on a different audience. Which we already have.

                    Please love yourself.

                    H 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jul 2020, 18:45
                    • C Catseye3
                      14 Jul 2020, 18:01

                      "Twitter has become its ultimate editor. As the ethics and mores of that platform have become those of the paper, the paper itself has increasingly become a kind of performance space. Stories are chosen and told in a way to satisfy the narrowest of audiences, rather than to allow a curious public to read about the world and then draw their own conclusions."

                      If this is true, it is unbearably sad.

                      J Offline
                      J Offline
                      Jolly
                      wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:36 last edited by
                      #13

                      @Catseye3 said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:

                      "Twitter has become its ultimate editor. As the ethics and mores of that platform have become those of the paper, the paper itself has increasingly become a kind of performance space. Stories are chosen and told in a way to satisfy the narrowest of audiences, rather than to allow a curious public to read about the world and then draw their own conclusions."

                      If this is true, it is unbearably sad.

                      We've talked the way the news is shaped to fit the narrative at the NYT more than once.

                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      • K Offline
                        K Offline
                        Klaus
                        wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:39 last edited by
                        #14

                        Wow.

                        Is there some kind of reaction from the NYT on this letter?

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        • J Online
                          J Online
                          jon-nyc
                          wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:40 last edited by
                          #15

                          This is all so fresh.

                          Only non-witches get due process.

                          • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                          1 Reply Last reply
                          • J Online
                            J Online
                            jon-nyc
                            wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:40 last edited by
                            #16

                            It’ll be interesting to see how it’s covered.

                            Not just at the times, but by the media beat guy at the Post.

                            Only non-witches get due process.

                            • Cotton Mather, Salem Massachusetts, 1692
                            J 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jul 2020, 21:32
                            • A Aqua Letifer
                              14 Jul 2020, 18:25

                              @Horace said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:

                              I was just yesterday mentioning to Renauda that pop culture controls the messaging now, rather than any central authority or even any theoretically decentralized journalism. It's why it's so important to allow pop culture to contain conservative voices. Too bad so many rank and file lefties are too caught up in the excitement of their self righteous moral superiority complexes to allow for that.

                              I think you're missing the point. If conservatives had a monopoly influence on popular culture, we'd have the exact same problem here because social media mandates both the coverage and the way in which that coverage is portrayed. The bigger problem, one that Weiss points out, is the manner in which NYT tries to win your attention.

                              If we don't fix that, then the only "alternatives" available to us are reactionary conservative outlets who play the same tricks on a different audience. Which we already have.

                              H Offline
                              H Offline
                              Horace
                              wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:45 last edited by
                              #17

                              @Aqua-Letifer said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:

                              @Horace said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:

                              I was just yesterday mentioning to Renauda that pop culture controls the messaging now, rather than any central authority or even any theoretically decentralized journalism. It's why it's so important to allow pop culture to contain conservative voices. Too bad so many rank and file lefties are too caught up in the excitement of their self righteous moral superiority complexes to allow for that.

                              I think you're missing the point. If conservatives had a monopoly influence on popular culture, we'd have the exact same problem here because social media mandates both the coverage and the way in which that coverage is portrayed. The bigger problem, one that Weiss points out, is the manner in which NYT tries to win your attention.

                              If we don't fix that, then the only "alternatives" available to us are reactionary conservative outlets who play the same tricks on a different audience. Which we already have.

                              I wasn't advocating for a different tribe to exert authoritarian pop culture power. I was advocating for pop culture to accept as a basic and important value that different viewpoints should be accepted and not canceled.

                              Education is extremely important.

                              A 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jul 2020, 18:48
                              • H Horace
                                14 Jul 2020, 18:45

                                @Aqua-Letifer said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:

                                @Horace said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:

                                I was just yesterday mentioning to Renauda that pop culture controls the messaging now, rather than any central authority or even any theoretically decentralized journalism. It's why it's so important to allow pop culture to contain conservative voices. Too bad so many rank and file lefties are too caught up in the excitement of their self righteous moral superiority complexes to allow for that.

                                I think you're missing the point. If conservatives had a monopoly influence on popular culture, we'd have the exact same problem here because social media mandates both the coverage and the way in which that coverage is portrayed. The bigger problem, one that Weiss points out, is the manner in which NYT tries to win your attention.

                                If we don't fix that, then the only "alternatives" available to us are reactionary conservative outlets who play the same tricks on a different audience. Which we already have.

                                I wasn't advocating for a different tribe to exert authoritarian pop culture power. I was advocating for pop culture to accept as a basic and important value that different viewpoints should be accepted and not canceled.

                                A Offline
                                A Offline
                                Aqua Letifer
                                wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:48 last edited by
                                #18

                                @Horace said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:

                                I wasn't advocating for a different tribe to exert authoritarian pop culture power. I was advocating for pop culture to accept as a basic and important value that different viewpoints should be accepted and not canceled.

                                Yikes. Well, good luck with that. I have no idea how to make that happen since its virtue alone is obviously no incentive. Then again, like literary and artistic movements, maybe we'll just get bored of this shit and want to go in a different direction.

                                Please love yourself.

                                H 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jul 2020, 18:58
                                • L Offline
                                  L Offline
                                  Loki
                                  wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:49 last edited by
                                  #19

                                  She also had signed the “Harper’s” letter.

                                  I’m all for an adult conversation played out on the merits of the piece, hoping against a flame war on both sides.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  • A Aqua Letifer
                                    14 Jul 2020, 18:48

                                    @Horace said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:

                                    I wasn't advocating for a different tribe to exert authoritarian pop culture power. I was advocating for pop culture to accept as a basic and important value that different viewpoints should be accepted and not canceled.

                                    Yikes. Well, good luck with that. I have no idea how to make that happen since its virtue alone is obviously no incentive. Then again, like literary and artistic movements, maybe we'll just get bored of this shit and want to go in a different direction.

                                    H Offline
                                    H Offline
                                    Horace
                                    wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 18:58 last edited by
                                    #20

                                    @Aqua-Letifer said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:

                                    @Horace said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:

                                    I wasn't advocating for a different tribe to exert authoritarian pop culture power. I was advocating for pop culture to accept as a basic and important value that different viewpoints should be accepted and not canceled.

                                    Yikes. Well, good luck with that. I have no idea how to make that happen since its virtue alone is obviously no incentive. Then again, like literary and artistic movements, maybe we'll just get bored of this shit and want to go in a different direction.

                                    America has had in its past pop cultures that valued diversity of thought. The NYT was based on it, as she wrote in the letter. I presume that at the time, it was thought of as a cool and hip value to hold. These days, it's cool and hip to consider those values to be dog whistles for racists.

                                    Education is extremely important.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    • J jon-nyc
                                      14 Jul 2020, 18:40

                                      It’ll be interesting to see how it’s covered.

                                      Not just at the times, but by the media beat guy at the Post.

                                      J Offline
                                      J Offline
                                      Jolly
                                      wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 21:32 last edited by
                                      #21

                                      @jon-nyc said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:

                                      It’ll be interesting to see how it’s covered.

                                      Not just at the times, but by the media beat guy at the Post.

                                      How it's covered? As a wise man once said, With a pillow, until it quits moving.

                                      “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

                                      Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

                                      L 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jul 2020, 21:34
                                      • J Jolly
                                        14 Jul 2020, 21:32

                                        @jon-nyc said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:

                                        It’ll be interesting to see how it’s covered.

                                        Not just at the times, but by the media beat guy at the Post.

                                        How it's covered? As a wise man once said, With a pillow, until it quits moving.

                                        L Offline
                                        L Offline
                                        Loki
                                        wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 21:34 last edited by
                                        #22

                                        @Jolly said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:

                                        @jon-nyc said in Bari Weiss resigns from the Times:

                                        It’ll be interesting to see how it’s covered.

                                        Not just at the times, but by the media beat guy at the Post.

                                        How it's covered? As a wise man once said, With a pillow, until it quits moving.

                                        I’ve noticed that CNN has a way of covering an issue it doesn’t want to but not having it show up on the website on the first page. Clever.

                                        A 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jul 2020, 23:58
                                        • H Offline
                                          H Offline
                                          Horace
                                          wrote on 14 Jul 2020, 21:36 last edited by
                                          #23

                                          jon, you're our resident CNN expert. How do they do that?

                                          Education is extremely important.

                                          J 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jul 2020, 21:59
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