Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence
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@xenon said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
It’s an interesting precedent. Get cronies to commit crimes for you, then get them outta jail.
Nothing legally wrong with it I guess, the President is entitled to do it.
IIRC, all of Stone's crimes were process crimes, as a result of the Mueller investigation(which we now know was a bucket of assholes). So what crime did he commit for Trump?
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@Jolly just clarifying - you want me to recount the specific Wikileaks saga between Stone and the Trump campaign, or how he perjured himself about it, or how he threatened other witnesses to not talk?
Regardless of the particulars - he was convicted. Barr agrees with the conviction. The crimes were related to helping Trump.
I’m not sure what you want me to recount to you.
I can link articles for you if you’re curious about the details of his conviction.
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@xenon said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
@Jolly just clarifying - you want me to recount the specific Wikileaks saga between Stone and the Trump campaign, or how he perjured himself about it, or how he threatened other witnesses to not talk?
Regardless of the particulars - he was convicted. Barr agrees with the conviction. The crimes were related to helping Trump.
I’m not sure what you want me to recount to you.
I can link articles for you if you’re curious about the details of his conviction.
Again, what crimes did Stone commit for Trump? Not because of who Trump was, not because they were process crimes, but what crimes did Stone commit for Trump?
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@Jolly it’s “for” in the sense that Stone was acting in - what I can only assume was - the best interest of Trump’s campaign and Presidential bid.
In that sense the crimes were “for” Trump. I’m not saying he was a button man or was directed to do something by Trump. Because theres no evidence of that (as far as I know).
It’s interesting because Trump has pardoned someone that is connected to his own enterprise.
That is the novel part of all this.
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@xenon said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
It’s interesting because Trump has pardoned someone that is connected to his own enterprise.
That is the novel part of all this.
Did you not see my posts about FDR, Truman, Clinton, and Nixon?
Thomas Jefferson pardoned Erick Bollman for violations of the Alien and Sedition Act in the hope that he would testify against rival Aaron Burr for treason
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@George-K said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
@xenon said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
It’s interesting because Trump has pardoned someone that is connected to his own enterprise.
That is the novel part of all this.
Did you not see my posts about FDR, Truman, Clinton, and Nixon?
Thomas Jefferson pardoned Erick Bollman for violations of the Alien and Sedition Act in the hope that he would testify against rival Aaron Burr for treason
Didn’t see that. What a corrupt legacy this power has.
Allies/cronies and employees (which is what I would characterize Stone as) - are still a bit different.
But not much distinction from a moral perspective, imo.
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People are calling this an "impeachable offense."
Good luck with that. This power is in the constitution and it is plenary and unconditional.
I almost understand the thinking behind putting it in - to make political convictions less common. However, it's ripe for abuse.
As I implied in my response to Phibes, I have less problem with this than I do with commuting the sentences of deserters and traitors and spies.
"Now look here, you Baltic gas passer... " - Mik, 6/14/08
The saying, "Lite is just one damn thing after another," is a gross understatement. The damn things overlap.
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@xenon said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
@George-K said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
@xenon said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
It’s interesting because Trump has pardoned someone that is connected to his own enterprise.
That is the novel part of all this.
Did you not see my posts about FDR, Truman, Clinton, and Nixon?
Thomas Jefferson pardoned Erick Bollman for violations of the Alien and Sedition Act in the hope that he would testify against rival Aaron Burr for treason
Didn’t see that. What a corrupt legacy this power has.
Allies/cronies and employees (which is what I would characterize Stone as) - are still a bit different.
But not much distinction from a moral perspective, imo.
It’s. not corrupt. It’s a bunch of whining and complaining for political gain. No pardon or commutation of sentence amounted to crap in our history. You are worried about a washed up clown being let out of jail?
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@xenon said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
@Loki why do we bother ever putting a washed up clown in jail?
Because it is against the law to lie in certain circumstance and he did even if there was so much wrong with entire “Russian prostitutes peed on the US President Russian Agent” investigation. Startling sounding isn’t it?
So yeah he should have gone to the jail and the President has every right to commute his sentence, even if it is misguided. I think it’s poor judgement only keeping his “turnaround” in the toilet but that’s another matter.
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@Loki said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
@xenon said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
@Loki why do we bother ever putting a washed up clown in jail?
Because it is against the law to lie in certain circumstance and he did even if there was so much wrong with entire “Russian prostitutes peed on the US President Russian Agent” investigation. Startling sounding isn’t it?
So yeah he should have gone to the jail and the President has every right to commute his sentence, even if it is misguided. I think it’s poor judgement only keeping his “turnaround” in the toilet but that’s another matter.
My opinion was that it was the right thing to do, since the judge erred greatly in not calling a mistrial. The conviction stands, which is proper and justice has been served.
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@George-K
George stated above:
"People are calling this an 'impeachable offense.'"Well, that's the way the game is being played, isn't it.
It doesn't matter that for anyone with even half of a brain, it is obvious there is no legal intervention possible nullifying a presidential pardon. Sometimes I wish there were.But in the strategy of the radical Left, even "impeach him for this!" helps keep the TDS bell ringing. Gotta keep that bell ringing, so when it comes time to
pull the levervote by mail, the tendency will be to consider Trump so tainted, even sensible people will vote Biden + the real president. -
Is there a graph somewhere of how many times people talked about impeaching each particular President?
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@Larry said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
TG, I know you may not be feeling it right now, but I do like you and I don't mean to seem like I'm picking on you.
But no matter what is being discussed, your take on it is that there's no difference, everything equals out, nothing changes, etc.. You aren't open to that broad viewpoint might be wrong, even though following your logic to its conclusion, there's no point to anything, nothing anyone does matters, nothing has any effect on anything. And that just won't hold wzter.
Larry, thanks for your comments.
The point I am trying to make is the the US is very good about not letting the "pendulum " swing to far in either direction, and eventually things will "trend" back to the center.
I think the system in the US is such that this will happen.
When President Bush was elected (and re-elected), there were a number of people on the old forum board who thought the world was coming to an end. This was the end of the US for sure!!!!
When President Obama was elected (and re-elected), there were a number of people on this forum who thought that the world was coming to an end. This was the end of the US for sure!!!
When President Trump was elected, there were a number of people who thought that the world was coming to an end. This was the end of the US for sure!!!
I am an optimist and I think that the US is better than it was 50 years ago, and 25 years ago.
Overall quality of life I think is generally better. Of course, there are individual things that people think are worse (gun control, gay marriage, etc) but OVERALL, the quality of life is better.
The "check and balance" in the US does a good job of this. The US did not fall apart when President Bush was elected, nor did it when President Obama was elected, nor did it when President Trump was elected.
If people think that President Trump is moving in a way that the majority disagree with, they will elect Vice President Biden. If that happens, and after four years, the majority are happy with what he is doing, he will be re-elected. If not, the Republic candidate will elected. In either case, i do not think that the US will fall apart, etc.
I just have trouble agreeing that "OMG, the sky will fall" if so and so gets elected/re-elected (regardless of if that is President Trump or Vice President Biden).
