Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence
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wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 01:32 last edited by
@George-K I agree.
President Trump seems to continue to do things that will stop him from being reelected.
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wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 01:50 last edited by
I imagine dozens of people might change their votes because of this.
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wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 01:58 last edited by
In his first term, Obama issued 22 pardons.
As of February of this year, Trump has issued 25 pardons, and 11 commutations:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Donald_Trump
In fairness to Obama, I don't know how many of those 1715 (cough Chelsea Manning cough)
pardonscommutations were in the final days of his term, so Trump certainly might exceed that number.More data here regarding how many people were granted clemency and pardons by Obama vs other Presidents:
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wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 02:01 last edited by
How many pardons were for colleagues or personal friends of Obama?
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How many pardons were for colleagues or personal friends of Obama?
wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 02:37 last edited by@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
How many pardons were for colleagues or personal friends of Obama?
Good question and I don’t know. However, the number of traitors and deserters is probably smaller.
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wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 03:20 last edited by
One of my favorites was the Roger Stone arrest. You would have thought they found El Chapo.
Of course we want to defund the police but that action on Stone was appropriate display of force for the Woke. Lol
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In his first term, Obama issued 22 pardons.
As of February of this year, Trump has issued 25 pardons, and 11 commutations:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_granted_executive_clemency_by_Donald_Trump
In fairness to Obama, I don't know how many of those 1715 (cough Chelsea Manning cough)
pardonscommutations were in the final days of his term, so Trump certainly might exceed that number.More data here regarding how many people were granted clemency and pardons by Obama vs other Presidents:
wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 04:28 last edited bySeems to me it’s like Covid testing, what important is not the number of tests but the percentage of positives.
So Obama had a helluva lot more requests and ok’ed 5%. More or less in line with the previous numbers
As doc phibes said, the real issue is granting commutation to a crony intimately involved in the Russia inquiry.
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wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 05:37 last edited by
He didn't pardon the guy, he commuted his sentence. A very big difference. Frankly, he should have pardoned the guy a year ago.
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@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
How many pardons were for colleagues or personal friends of Obama?
Good question and I don’t know. However, the number of traitors and deserters is probably smaller.
wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 14:42 last edited by@George-K said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
@Doctor-Phibes said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
How many pardons were for colleagues or personal friends of Obama?
Good question and I don’t know. However, the number of traitors and deserters is probably smaller.
I'd completely forgotten about the Bubba Pardons
Bill Clinton committed some of the worst abuses of this power, including pardons for his brother Roger Clinton and his friend and Whitewater business partner Susan McDougal. He pardoned the fugitive financier Marc Rich, who evaded justice by fleeing abroad. Entirely unrepentant, Rich was a major Democratic donor, and Clinton wiped away his convictions for fraud, tax evasion, racketeering, and illegal dealings with Iran.
And others:
Franklin Roosevelt also pardoned political allies, including Conrad Mann, a close associate of Kansas City political boss Thomas Pendergast. Pendergast made a fortune off illegal alcohol, gambling, and graft, and helped put Harry Truman into office. Truman also misused this power, including pardoning the thoroughly corrupt George Caldwell, a Democratic state official who skimmed massive amounts of money off government projects, such as a building fund for Louisiana State University.
Richard Nixon was both giver and receiver of controversial pardons. He pardoned Jimmy Hoffa after the Teamsters Union leader pledged to support his reelection bid. Nixon himself was later pardoned by Gerald Ford, an act many of us view as a mistake. Ronald Reagan refused to pardon the Iran Contra affair figures, but his vice president, George H.W. Bush, did so after becoming president. Despite his alleged involvement in that scandal, Bush pardoned other Iran Contra figures, such as Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger.
And this goes all the way back to Jefferson and Jackson, as Turley points out.
Is this justification for the Stone commutation of sentence for what are, basically, process crimes? No. But put in perspective, it's small potatoes.
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wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 15:34 last edited by
It is funny how biases interpret the results:
President Obama pardons/commutations
Democrat response - presidential privilege and he is within the law to do so
Republic response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of lawPresident Trump pardons/commutations
Democrat response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of law
Republic response - presidential privledge and he is within the law to do so
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wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 15:35 last edited by
Several things need mentioning....
- Trump commuted the sentence. He did not pardon Stone.
- Trump thought Stone did not get a fair trial, because the jury was biased. Hell, the judge said the jury was biased, but that was a defense attorney problem, not a judge problem.
- The state and the Feds are currently releasing non-violent offenders from prisons. Somewhere around 24,000, IIRC. The prison Stone was supposed to report to, had been COVID free. They now have 30 cases. You send a 67 year-old non-violent offenders to a COVID hotspot? Nah.
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It is funny how biases interpret the results:
President Obama pardons/commutations
Democrat response - presidential privilege and he is within the law to do so
Republic response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of lawPresident Trump pardons/commutations
Democrat response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of law
Republic response - presidential privledge and he is within the law to do so wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 15:38 last edited by@taiwan_girl said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
It is funny how biases interpret the results:
President Obama pardons/commutations
Democrat response - presidential privilege and he is within the law to do so
Republic response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of lawPresident Trump pardons/commutations
Democrat response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of law
Republic response - presidential privledge and he is within the law to do so You need to take a very hard look at the number of pardons and who they went to.
You know, everything is not equal and only roadkill is always in the middle of the road.
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@taiwan_girl said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
It is funny how biases interpret the results:
President Obama pardons/commutations
Democrat response - presidential privilege and he is within the law to do so
Republic response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of lawPresident Trump pardons/commutations
Democrat response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of law
Republic response - presidential privledge and he is within the law to do so You need to take a very hard look at the number of pardons and who they went to.
You know, everything is not equal and only roadkill is always in the middle of the road.
wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 15:46 last edited by@Jolly said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
@taiwan_girl said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
It is funny how biases interpret the results:
President Obama pardons/commutations
Democrat response - presidential privilege and he is within the law to do so
Republic response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of lawPresident Trump pardons/commutations
Democrat response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of law
Republic response - presidential privledge and he is within the law to do so You need to take a very hard look at the number of pardons and who they went to.
You know, everything is not equal and only roadkill is always in the middle of the road.
You are making my point! LOL
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wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 16:49 last edited by Catseye3 7 Nov 2020, 21:00
I'm finding that the worse and/or more bizarre things get, the more narrowly I choose what to get agitated over. This of the Stone pardon is SSDD in my book, and I don't give a flyin flip whether the guy goes to prison or not.
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It is funny how biases interpret the results:
President Obama pardons/commutations
Democrat response - presidential privilege and he is within the law to do so
Republic response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of lawPresident Trump pardons/commutations
Democrat response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of law
Republic response - presidential privledge and he is within the law to do so wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 16:56 last edited by@taiwan_girl said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
It is funny how biases interpret the results:
President Obama pardons/commutations
Democrat response - presidential privilege and he is within the law to do so
Republic response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of lawPresident Trump pardons/commutations
Democrat response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of law
Republic response - presidential privledge and he is within the law to do so Sorry. But the republicans said nothing of the sort.
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@Jolly said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
@taiwan_girl said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
It is funny how biases interpret the results:
President Obama pardons/commutations
Democrat response - presidential privilege and he is within the law to do so
Republic response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of lawPresident Trump pardons/commutations
Democrat response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of law
Republic response - presidential privledge and he is within the law to do so You need to take a very hard look at the number of pardons and who they went to.
You know, everything is not equal and only roadkill is always in the middle of the road.
You are making my point! LOL
wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 16:57 last edited by@taiwan_girl said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
@Jolly said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
@taiwan_girl said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
It is funny how biases interpret the results:
President Obama pardons/commutations
Democrat response - presidential privilege and he is within the law to do so
Republic response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of lawPresident Trump pardons/commutations
Democrat response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of law
Republic response - presidential privledge and he is within the law to do so You need to take a very hard look at the number of pardons and who they went to.
You know, everything is not equal and only roadkill is always in the middle of the road.
You are making my point! LOL
Exactly how is he making your point?
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@taiwan_girl said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
It is funny how biases interpret the results:
President Obama pardons/commutations
Democrat response - presidential privilege and he is within the law to do so
Republic response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of lawPresident Trump pardons/commutations
Democrat response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of law
Republic response - presidential privledge and he is within the law to do so Sorry. But the republicans said nothing of the sort.
wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 17:19 last edited by taiwan_girl 7 Nov 2020, 17:21@Larry said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
@taiwan_girl said in Trump commutes Roger Stone’s sentence:
It is funny how biases interpret the results:
President Obama pardons/commutations
Democrat response - presidential privilege and he is within the law to do so
Republic response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of lawPresident Trump pardons/commutations
Democrat response - abuse of power and going outside the normal course of law
Republic response - presidential privledge and he is within the law to do so Sorry. But the republicans said nothing of the sort.
President Trump Campaign Press Secretary
etc.
My point is, that if it is "your (generic)" guy who does the pardons or commutations, it is reasonable and justified.
If the "other guy" does a pardon or commutation, it is blatant abuse of power.
Democrats are no better than Republics in this case. Each president has done some that "seem" to be justified, and each have done some which are pretty obvious political.
My guess is that there have been hundreds of men in their 60's convicted of non violent crimes at the federal level. Why only Roger Stone have his sentence commuted by President Trump?
(I am sure that I would find the same type of information if I went back to President Obamas pardons, etc.)
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wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 17:23 last edited by
You gave me 3 articles all commenting on one person, all 3 saying the same thing. That his sentence commutation was justified.. And you think that proves you previous statements....
Jesus..
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wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 17:30 last edited by
TG, I know you may not be feeling it right now, but I do like you and I don't mean to seem like I'm picking on you.
But no matter what is being discussed, your take on it is that there's no difference, everything equals out, nothing changes, etc.. You aren't open to that broad viewpoint might be wrong, even though following your logic to its conclusion, there's no point to anything, nothing anyone does matters, nothing has any effect on anything. And that just won't hold wzter.
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wrote on 11 Jul 2020, 18:06 last edited by xenon 7 Nov 2020, 18:07
It’s an interesting precedent. Get cronies to commit crimes for you, then get them outta jail.
Nothing legally wrong with it I guess, the President is entitled to do it.