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The New Coffee Room

  1. TNCR
  2. General Discussion
  3. What say you, Ax?

What say you, Ax?

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  • JollyJ Offline
    JollyJ Offline
    Jolly
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Thou art the Pornmaster here...

    https://thefederalist.com/2023/04/21/dennis-prager-is-wrong-porn-isnt-adultery-prevention-its-just-plain-adultery/

    “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

    Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

    1 Reply Last reply
    • MikM Away
      MikM Away
      Mik
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      The first phrase , "Men want variety. … ". He goes off the rails immediately.

      People in hell want ice water. I want to eat fresh white truffles with every meal. There is no limit to our appetites. What makes us human beings is how well we control them.

      “I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.” ~Winston S. Churchill

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      • JollyJ Offline
        JollyJ Offline
        Jolly
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Wouldn't want Ax to miss this one, so a small bump...

        “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

        Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

        AxtremusA 1 Reply Last reply
        • JollyJ Jolly

          Wouldn't want Ax to miss this one, so a small bump...

          AxtremusA Offline
          AxtremusA Offline
          Axtremus
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          @Jolly

          Let's see ...

          Griswold quotes a couple of sentences by Prager then goes on to write about how Prager is wrong.

          I will refrain from critiquing Prager because Griswold has hit provided a link to the Prager source material and I'm not sufficiently motivated to go look it up myself.

          So I will only speak to Griswold's viewpoints.

          Points 1 and 2 (using Griswold's numbering) are rooted in Christianity. These can be skipped over unless you subscribe to Christianity.

          Point 3 can be valid but over generalized. Porn can be exploitative. Just about any organized human endeavors can be exploitative. The conscientious consumers try their best to select products that they reasonably believe were not produced using exploited labor. This is not specific to porn.

          Point 4 "normalizing violence" ... same shortcoming as point 3.

          Point 5 "toxic musculinity" ... same shortcoming as point 3.

          Point 6 "sin" ... same limitation as points 1 and 2.

          Point 7 "violation of marriage vows" ... at least two problems with this. (A) it has the same limitation as points 1 and 2 if you automatically assume the usual Christian marriage vows. (B) If you don't make assumptions about marriage vows, you would not be able to categorically claim that all marriage vows are violated.

          Point 8 "trust" and "covenant" ... same problem with point 7, just replace "marriage vows" with "covenants."

          Point 9 "wife's self-image" ... same shortcoming as point 3. Lots of things can mess with one's self-image. Also similar problem as point 7, Griswold would have to make assumptions about "wife's self-image" for she writes on in point 9 to apply.

          Point 10 ... poor scholarship attempting to support an entire point with one anecdote, and second hand one at that.

          Point 11 "wife's ruined libido" and "duty sex" ... not that there aren't any good arguments to be made about "duty sex" ruining one's libido. But Griswold has not make the case for what that has to do with porn. Griswold claims wives fear that their husbands would turn to porn if they do not consent to sex with their husbands. Is that even a common occurrence supported by evidence? Griswold also seem oblivious to the fact that scriptures literally state that sexual intercourse is a spousal duty.

          Point 12 on correlation between porn intake and erectile dysfunction ... Griswold provides a link to another article claiming to report on a study that claims such a correlation, but following all these links has not lead to any actual publication that's suppose to back up that claim. For this, again I criticize Griswold for poor research. Instead of tracking down the actual publication, Griswold just cites an Internet source and calls it a day.

          Point 13 first part about porn "rewiring" the brain ... similar problem as with point 3. There may be a good point here but porn is far from the only thing "rewiring" the brain. (Second part applies only to Christians so I'll skip over it.)

          Point 14 "porn defaces devine imagery" ... same shortcoming as points 1 and 2.

          1 Reply Last reply
          • JollyJ Offline
            JollyJ Offline
            Jolly
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Reasons 1 and 2 - Ok, we can leave those out, though I think in our culture Christian marriage is more the norm than not.

            Reason 3 - I think that's very hard to argue against. Porn is very exploitive of women. Women are trafficked within the industry, many made to perform sex acts they do not want to do.

            Reason 4 - Does porn promote violence against women? His figure given is 40% of porn videos do...I'll be generous and ballpark that to a third. That's still a lot of objectification and violence against women, through male dominance.

            Reason 5 - See 4

            Reason 6 - Goes back to 1 and 2, but isn't that the thrust of the article? Prager's views on porn in both societal and religious marriage?

            Reason 7 - He uses Paul as an example, but his point is universally valid. In a monogamous marriage (and no, that's what we have, not what you would like), when you introduce sex acts with other people into the marriage, you eventually weaken the marriage. Porn is more insidious, since the act is not physical, but it does creates altered perceptions of intimate reality and eventually causes harm.

            Reason 8 - Does porn shatter trust in a marriage? I don't know if it shatters trust, but it constantly sends a message to the wife that she's not young enough, not built well enough, not adventuresome enough, not willing enough. In short, she's simply not enough.

            Reason 9 - see 8.

            Reason 10 - Does porn crush intimacy? Certainly, if the fantasy is replacing reality.

            Reason 11 - Duty sex. Exactly what it says.

            Reason 12 - Sexual dysfunction. This was the author's cite: https://www.insider.com/men-who-watch-lots-of-porn-worse-erectile-dysfunction-2020-7

            You can look up the original paper, if you wish, but the findings were interesting, in that porn consumption and erectile dysfunction seem to be linked in a significant portion of men, especially young men.

            Reason 13 - That one is about rewiring one's brain. Again, the author's cite:

            https://neurosciencenews.com/neuroscience-pornography-brain-15354/

            The statement that porn rewires the brain is the subject of more than one paper. One from PubMed:
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3050060/

            Reason 14 - again religious.

            “Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”

            Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton

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