He's right
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Unless Americans somehow become willing to give up their right to own guns, he is right. And that's the plain truth nobody wants to hear.
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Unless Americans somehow become willing to give up their right to own guns, he is right. And that's the plain truth nobody wants to hear.
@Doctor-Phibes said in He's right:
Unless Americans somehow become willing to give up their right to own guns, he is right. And that's the plain truth nobody wants to hear.
I ain't British.
Sorry.
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@Mik said in He's right:
It’s not guns. It’s willingness to use them.
If you don't have them, you can't use them.
I know all the arguments, but the bottom line is that this is primarily an American problem, and the one thing that distinguishes America from the rest of the West is it's attitude towards firearms.
And clearly it's not going to change. It's ingrained in the national psyche. So the congressman is correct.
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Guns aren't going anywhere, but ultimately, the GOP spends a great deal of its cultural capital on its defense of guns. Which reduces the capital available for other stuff.
@Horace said in He's right:
Guns aren't going anywhere, but ultimately, the GOP spends a great deal of its cultural capital on its defense of guns. Which reduces the capital available for other stuff.
I guess there is an upside to the never-ending debate after all.
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Ain't happening.
Culture needs to change. We've been going down the wrong road for awhile.
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@Jolly said in He's right:
Ain't happening.
Culture needs to change. We've been going down the wrong road for awhile.
Almost everybody can agree that the culture needs to change - the problem is getting people to agree on the direction, and the best way to start pushing. Nobody really seems to want to compromise. You understandably apologize for not being British, but compromise has historically something the Brits were quite good at. I'm not sure it's true any more.
And changing a cultural direction deliberately is really, really difficult. It takes a long time. I'm not convinced that people have the patience.
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I'm going back to the WSJ poll...I think we are forgetting what it means to be American. We are forgetting the things that make us a great nation. Things like religion or a broad agreement on what is right and what is wrong. What is good and what is bad. The tolerance for differing views. A lost sense of community.
We've lost the drive for equal opportunity in a misbegotten drive for equity and that puts a strain on one of the greatest American strengths - merit. Cream should rise to the top, no matter it's beginnings.
And people have to buy into the American dream. Work hard, work smart and you will succeed.
At the end of the day, it boils down to hope. It boils down to a person being the captain of their own destiny.
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I'm going back to the WSJ poll...I think we are forgetting what it means to be American. We are forgetting the things that make us a great nation. Things like religion or a broad agreement on what is right and what is wrong. What is good and what is bad. The tolerance for differing views. A lost sense of community.
We've lost the drive for equal opportunity in a misbegotten drive for equity and that puts a strain on one of the greatest American strengths - merit. Cream should rise to the top, no matter it's beginnings.
And people have to buy into the American dream. Work hard, work smart and you will succeed.
At the end of the day, it boils down to hope. It boils down to a person being the captain of their own destiny.
@Jolly said in He's right:
I'm going back to the WSJ poll...I think we are forgetting what it means to be American. We are forgetting the things that make us a great nation. Things like religion or a broad agreement on what is right and what is wrong. What is good and what is bad. The tolerance for differing views. A lost sense of community.
We've lost the drive for equal opportunity in a misbegotten drive for equity and that puts a strain on one of the greatest American strengths - merit. Cream should rise to the top, no matter it's beginnings.
And people have to buy into the American dream. Work hard, work smart and you will succeed.
At the end of the day, it boils down to hope. It boils down to a person being the captain of their own destiny.
I don't think you're wrong, but I also think that the American obsession with gun ownership is also a factor. Pretending that this has nothing to do with the problem isn't realistic.
Now, you can take the view that the freedom to bear arms is more important, and that's valid. I don't agree, but it's an argument, and I'm not American so I'm kind of an outlier anyway. But to try and claim that it has no bearing on these shootings, which are so much more common than in other countries with similar cultural concerns is just avoidance.
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I don't think this girl had an obsession with gun ownership, but with violence. She was under treatment for mental illness and should have been unable to purchase firearms.
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I don't think this girl had an obsession with gun ownership, but with violence. She was under treatment for mental illness and should have been unable to purchase firearms.
@Mik said in He's right:
I don't think this girl had an obsession with gun ownership, but with violence. She was under treatment for mental illness and should have been unable to purchase firearms.
No, you're right. But she lives in a country where getting hold of a lot of guns is really easy.
There has to be a reason why this happens so much more often than elsewhere, and so you logically have to ask 'What is different about America?'. It's not the level of mental illness, is it? It's not the amount of computer games being played. It's not the lack of religion. So what is it?
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I still support a licensing program with strong civil liberties oversight of the program. A written exam and a practical exam should be required. You could also open up to classes of firearm licensure. Owning a 9 millimeter handgun is not the same as owning a semiautomatic rifle. You could also put reasonable limits for age. 12-16 limited to bolt action rifles, for instance… 16-22 limited to long guns… With reasonable allowances at approved ranges.
At the same time, I would also like to see a number of existing laws done away with. The current concealed carry laws are absurd in the differences from state to state. Banning something because it looks scary is ridiculous. My guess is that this shooter used the 9 mill pistol platform for the killing and not the AR 15. I don’t believe the 9 millimeter would be affected by the proposed “assault weapon” bans.
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Just an observation...
The community in which I live is rural and about 3000 people or so. It runs the gamut from poor as church mice to a lady that's been a Hollywood actress (and did pretty well at it). But most of us are just middle class, blue collar and white collar. In the last thirty years, we've had two murders, one of which was done with a firearm (rifle).
Not only is this the South, with its high level of gun ownership, this is a community with a lot of hunters. It's a community with a good many people who serve in the National Guard. The Pew folks say gun ownership in the south is 36% of all households having at least one gun. I would say in my neck of the woods, it would be closer to 36% of households that own two or more.
Yet, gun violence is pretty rare. Most of the crime we have is the rural scourge of drugs and the theft that goes with it. Or it's the usual domestic fights and squabbles. But folks aren't shooting each other.
Don't get me wrong, something bad only takes one nut and it can happen anywhere. But there are more people shot in Chicago or New Orleans on a Saturday, than have been shot here in fifty years. In a community awash in handguns, shotguns and rifles.
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Just an observation...
The community in which I live is rural and about 3000 people or so. It runs the gamut from poor as church mice to a lady that's been a Hollywood actress (and did pretty well at it). But most of us are just middle class, blue collar and white collar. In the last thirty years, we've had two murders, one of which was done with a firearm (rifle).
Not only is this the South, with its high level of gun ownership, this is a community with a lot of hunters. It's a community with a good many people who serve in the National Guard. The Pew folks say gun ownership in the south is 36% of all households having at least one gun. I would say in my neck of the woods, it would be closer to 36% of households that own two or more.
Yet, gun violence is pretty rare. Most of the crime we have is the rural scourge of drugs and the theft that goes with it. Or it's the usual domestic fights and squabbles. But folks aren't shooting each other.
Don't get me wrong, something bad only takes one nut and it can happen anywhere. But there are more people shot in Chicago or New Orleans on a Saturday, than have been shot here in fifty years. In a community awash in handguns, shotguns and rifles.
@Jolly said in He's right:
But there are more people shot in Chicago or New Orleans on a Saturday, than have been shot here in fifty years. In a community awash in handguns, shotguns and rifles.
In the US, population density has a lot to do with it. A lot of people living close together gives more opportunities for small disagreements to become big disagreements.
But again, this is worse in the US than other places, rural or cities. There are large cities all over the world which have much less gun violence than in the US.
