"musical necrophilia"
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I've seen this before, and God knows I'm no fan of Kenny G, but I think he's getting himself worked up over nothing.
It's not like he beats his wife or talks about The Jewish Conspiracy.
People aren't going to stop listening to Kenny and start listening to Coltrane, whether or not he plays with Louis Armstrong.
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This type of musical necrophilia - the technique of overdubbing on the preexisting tracks of already dead performers - was weird when Natalie Cole did it with her dad on "Unforgettable" a few years ago, but it was her dad. When Tony Bennett did it with Billie Holiday it was bizarre, but we are talking about two of the greatest singers of the 20th century who were on roughly the same level of artistic accomplishment. When Larry Coryell presumed to overdub himself on top of a Wes Montgomery track, I lost a lot of the respect that I ever had for him - and I have to seriously question the fact that I did have respect for someone who could turn out to have such unbelievably bad taste and be that disrespectful to one of my personal heroes.
I suspect it's better to sooner, rather than later, divorce yourself from a desire to achieve and maintain the respect of people who think like this. They will apply strict hierarchies, where those lower should defer to those higher, full stop. It is very tempting to look this sort of person in the eye and tell them to go fuck themselves. Because you know they would take offense.
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I don't find the Kenny G thing as stupid as the note-for-note recreation of Kind of Blue.
What a pointless exercise, and also antithetical to the jazz tradition.
But again, they're not beating their wife.
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I guess most musicians would agree that Bach is at the top of any music hierarchy. I don't imagine any Bach lover would take offense if any arbitrarily untalented or undeservedly successful musician were to use his music. Maybe this has more to do with jazz culture than music culture. At which point it's fair to turn a critical eye to Mr Metheny's values.
Education is extremely important.
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I am sure Pat has profited to a great extent on his "popularity". Not to say that he is only in it for the money, but how can one actually know what is in the mind of another person just because more people like the music they produce vs. your music.
Is Pat's music better? According to what criteria? I mean complexity in music is something I like yet I am also moved by some of the simplest music ever written. "Taste" in music is so subjective. From a pure technical and music theory point of view can it ever be judged as "better"? Better than what? Better to who's ear?
I envy anyone who can make a living or get wealthy beyond their wildest dreams making music. Any music.
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I guess most musicians would agree that Bach is at the top of any music hierarchy. I don't imagine any Bach lover would take offense if any arbitrarily untalented or undeservedly successful musician were to use his music. Maybe this has more to do with jazz culture than music culture. At which point it's fair to turn a critical eye to Mr Metheny's values.
@Horace said in "musical necrophilia":
I guess most musicians would agree that Bach is at the top of any music hierarchy. I don't imagine any Bach lover would take offense if any arbitrarily untalented or undeservedly successful musician were to use his music. Maybe this has more to do with jazz culture than music culture. At which point it's fair to turn a critical eye to Mr Metheny's values.
Bach's music is intended to be reproduced, and in some cases was written for relative beginners. Jazz isn't written down in the same way.
When I was 16, I was a massive jazz snob. But you know, at the end of the day it's just entertainment. If people like listening to Kenny G, who am I to criticise their utter lack of taste and completely wasted lives?
And Kenny G isn't a bad saxophone player. He's not really a jazz musician, but he's not a bad saxophone player.
I was only joking
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@Horace said in "musical necrophilia":
I guess most musicians would agree that Bach is at the top of any music hierarchy. I don't imagine any Bach lover would take offense if any arbitrarily untalented or undeservedly successful musician were to use his music. Maybe this has more to do with jazz culture than music culture. At which point it's fair to turn a critical eye to Mr Metheny's values.
Bach's music is intended to be reproduced, and in some cases was written for relative beginners. Jazz isn't written down in the same way.
When I was 16, I was a massive jazz snob. But you know, at the end of the day it's just entertainment. If people like listening to Kenny G, who am I to criticise their utter lack of taste and completely wasted lives?
And Kenny G isn't a bad saxophone player. He's not really a jazz musician, but he's not a bad saxophone player.
And Kenny G isn't a bad saxophone player. He's not really a jazz musician, but he's not a bad saxophone player.
That is more or less what Artie Shaw said of Benny Goodman and the clarinet.
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I am sure Pat has profited to a great extent on his "popularity". Not to say that he is only in it for the money, but how can one actually know what is in the mind of another person just because more people like the music they produce vs. your music.
Is Pat's music better? According to what criteria? I mean complexity in music is something I like yet I am also moved by some of the simplest music ever written. "Taste" in music is so subjective. From a pure technical and music theory point of view can it ever be judged as "better"? Better than what? Better to who's ear?
I envy anyone who can make a living or get wealthy beyond their wildest dreams making music. Any music.
@mark said in "musical necrophilia":
I envy anyone who can make a living or get wealthy beyond their wildest dreams making music. Any music.
Yeah, if Kenny G is as popular as he seems to be, what the heck? It sure beats coming into the office staring at a computer all day.
And he's a way better technical instrumentalist than no small number of people who make a lot more money than he does.
I think what really pisses some of the jazz folks off is that to people who don't really listen to jazz, he's a jazz musician, and he really isn't.
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@mark said in "musical necrophilia":
I envy anyone who can make a living or get wealthy beyond their wildest dreams making music. Any music.
Yeah, if Kenny G is as popular as he seems to be, what the heck? It sure beats coming into the office staring at a computer all day.
And he's a way better technical instrumentalist than no small number of people who make a lot more money than he does.
I think what really pisses some of the jazz folks off is that to people who don't really listen to jazz, he's a jazz musician, and he really isn't.
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If you listen to Wynton Marsalis and Stanley Crouch, Miles Davis sold out when he played In a Silent Way, and with his later funk and pop-related stuff, even though Kind of Blue sold way more copies than his later stuff.
It's bollocks, obviously. Why people can't just say 'I don't like this' is beyond me. Again, I felt this way when I was 16. Wynton seems to still feel the same way now. He seems to be stuck in the pre-electric age, and that you have to wear a 3-piece suit if you want to be taken seriously.
I was only joking
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@Doctor-Phibes I agree. But then, maybe his fans disagree with that notion and reward him handsomely for making their kind of easy listening "jazz". lol
@mark said in "musical necrophilia":
@Doctor-Phibes I agree. But then, maybe his fans disagree with that notion and reward him handsomely for making their kind of easy listening "jazz". lol
A picture is worth a thousand words. And here's a good one.
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If you listen to Wynton Marsalis and Stanley Crouch, Miles Davis sold out when he played In a Silent Way, and with his later funk and pop-related stuff, even though Kind of Blue sold way more copies than his later stuff.
It's bollocks, obviously. Why people can't just say 'I don't like this' is beyond me. Again, I felt this way when I was 16. Wynton seems to still feel the same way now. He seems to be stuck in the pre-electric age, and that you have to wear a 3-piece suit if you want to be taken seriously.
@Doctor-Phibes said in "musical necrophilia":
If you listen to Wynton Marsalis and Stanley Crouch, Miles Davis sold out when he played In a Silent Way, and with his later funk and pop-related stuff, even though Kind of Blue sold way more copies than his later stuff.
It's bollocks, obviously. Why people can't just say 'I don't like this' is beyond me. Again, I felt this way when I was 16. Wynton seems to still feel the same way now. He seems to be stuck in the pre-electric age, and that you have to wear a 3-piece suit if you want to be taken seriously.
Jazz should be anything other than "conservative". lol
