A Shaky Future?
-
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 12:39 last edited by Mik 7 May 2020, 12:40
Arguably why? What would we have done about Putin's consolidation of power? Apparently Putin is quite popular in Russia. What have we done about it prior to the Trump administration? What did we do when he had Medvedev elected, making him the de facto president? Obama told them he'd have more flexibility after the election. Here's a little background on Putin that might help in any discussion.
https://carnegieendowment.org/2017/10/25/putin-files-consolidating-power-pub-73557
What did the Obama administration do when China began building military use islands in the South China Sea? Here's what the Trump administration is doing.
In short, this is all far more complicated than Orange Man Bad.
-
Arguably why? What would we have done about Putin's consolidation of power? Apparently Putin is quite popular in Russia. What have we done about it prior to the Trump administration? What did we do when he had Medvedev elected, making him the de facto president? Obama told them he'd have more flexibility after the election. Here's a little background on Putin that might help in any discussion.
https://carnegieendowment.org/2017/10/25/putin-files-consolidating-power-pub-73557
What did the Obama administration do when China began building military use islands in the South China Sea? Here's what the Trump administration is doing.
In short, this is all far more complicated than Orange Man Bad.
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 12:43 last edited by@Mik I can't answer. I sense intuitively that other countries -- particularly those potentially presenting us with problems -- predicate their actions on who's in power in the US. Did you see the addendum I sent you to your first questions?
-
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 12:48 last edited by
Our obsession with Russia has been the greatest gift EVER to China.
That’s the real story.
-
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 12:53 last edited by
@Loki said in A Shaky Future?:
Our obsession with Russia has been the greatest gift EVER to China.
That’s the real story.
That is the Truth. And that has everything, and nothing, to do with Trump.
-
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 13:12 last edited by
That's rather my point, Cats. You posted an opinion piece that starts from a bias and asking others to consider it. Posting evidence to the contrary does not seem to prompt you to consider your own position.
It is SO TNCR.
-
@Mik Same answer for the first two questions: Arguably the two countries would not have made those moves with a strong American leadership. They did what they knew they could get away with. Arguably; I'm not claiming to know.
Mik, the rest of the world sees him for what he is -- unlike a hefty portion of our own population -- and act accordingly.
I am right now reading an article capsulizing the ghastliness of Trump's many phone calls to world leaders. It's beyond cringeworthy.
https://lite.cnn.com/en/article/h_31a34fdadc1e0ed0e3b2a65b0c89f20ewrote on 5 Jul 2020, 13:13 last edited by@Catseye3 said in A Shaky Future?:
@Mik Same answer for the first two questions: Arguably the two countries would not have made those moves with a strong American leadership. They did what they knew they could get away with. Arguably; I'm not claiming to know.
Mik, the rest of the world sees him for what he is -- unlike a hefty portion of our own population -- and act accordingly.
I am right now reading an article capsulizing the ghastliness of Trump's many phone calls to world leaders. It's beyond cringeworthy.
https://lite.cnn.com/en/article/h_31a34fdadc1e0ed0e3b2a65b0c89f20eI’m reading Bolton’s book. See what I wrote recently in the what are your reading thread.
Like I said there, the book does not make you take Bolton’s political positions. I don’t at all. But the guy is so erudite and articulate, and without trying to purposely make fun of trump, he doesn’t, but trump comes out as simply not up to the job. His personally disorder is simply too overwhelming to allow for orderly government and policy.
I strongly recommend the book to both right and left leaning readers. To the left to show that you can be very right wing yet not a nut job. To the right, to show what an effective right wing policy maker can look like. Instead of the buffoon they have.
-
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 13:20 last edited by
I’d like to see Bolton write a book about himself and how far his “competence” took him. Spoiler alert- tool of the left before disposed of.
-
That's rather my point, Cats. You posted an opinion piece that starts from a bias and asking others to consider it. Posting evidence to the contrary does not seem to prompt you to consider your own position.
It is SO TNCR.
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 13:21 last edited by@Mik said in A Shaky Future?:
You posted an opinion piece that starts from a bias and asking others to consider it. Posting evidence to the contrary does not seem to prompt you to consider your own position.
I said more than once that I'm not qualified to own my own expertise in this. The CNN piece -- of course it's an opinion piece! It's CNN! How can it be anything else??? -- might, yes, be an opinion piece, but it has factuality embedded within it, IMO.
You say I post from "bias" but am met with "evidence". Yeah, that's TNCR all right.
The only thing I wanted to get across is that there are changes going on in the world that hold the promise of not boding well for the US, and that informed Americans need to be aware of this. I feel it's important enough that to not speak of it would be unethical. What y'all do with it is up to you,, but I did my part.
-
@Mik said in A Shaky Future?:
You posted an opinion piece that starts from a bias and asking others to consider it. Posting evidence to the contrary does not seem to prompt you to consider your own position.
I said more than once that I'm not qualified to own my own expertise in this. The CNN piece -- of course it's an opinion piece! It's CNN! How can it be anything else??? -- might, yes, be an opinion piece, but it has factuality embedded within it, IMO.
You say I post from "bias" but am met with "evidence". Yeah, that's TNCR all right.
The only thing I wanted to get across is that there are changes going on in the world that hold the promise of not boding well for the US, and that informed Americans need to be aware of this. I feel it's important enough that to not speak of it would be unethical. What y'all do with it is up to you,, but I did my part.
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 13:25 last edited by@Catseye3 said in A Shaky Future?:
@Mik said in A Shaky Future?:
You posted an opinion piece that starts from a bias and asking others to consider it. Posting evidence to the contrary does not seem to prompt you to consider your own position.
I said more than once that I'm not qualified to own my own expertise in this. The CNN piece -- of course it's an opinion piece! It's CNN! How can it be anything else??? -- might, yes, be an opinion piece, but it has factuality embedded within it, IMO.
You say I post from "bias" but am met with "evidence". Yeah, that's TNCR all right.
The only thing I wanted to get across is that there are changes going on in the world that hold the promise of not boding well for the US, and that informed Americans need to be aware of this. I feel it's important enough that to not speak of it would be unethical. What y'all do with it is up to you,, but I did my part.
Cats the other tribe went after gas station parading as a country and let China run hog wild. The article is right but for the wrong reasons. They need to look in the mirror. Oh and any foreign policy that keeps China and Russia from aligning makes sense right? So if you were the US...oh never mind.
-
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 13:48 last edited by
Opinion...
Nations do not have friends, they have interests. Individual nations will do what they can, nonviolently or violently, to achieve their interests. This is the way it is and that is the way it will be be. Forever, amen.
Now, Russia can do what they want. They are a sovereign nation. I think they have so many internal problems right now, any short term return to sheer power projection such as the old Soviet Union achieved is laughable. Russia cannot even afford to construct a fourth generation fighter.
Renauda can speak to this much better than I, but the Russians always have had a duality that is hard for most to understand. On one hand, they would love to be European in many ways, but they are also an Asian country. And they've always had a bit of paranoia about them, for good reason, at times.
Taking into account that all great nations will play The Great Game, I think as long as we show the Russians a little respect, we can deal with them.
China is certainly another matter and has been ascending since Clinton started cutting the sweetheart deals with them and Biden voted for most favored nation status. We have let our money finance China into an economic powerhouse. On both sides of the political aisle, America loves cheap.
China as a military power may be another thing, altogether. While China has been a land power for many years, they haven't been good at projecting power. And while the CCP may appear monolithic, the reality is that corruption and back-biting for advantage has long been a reality in China.
I suspect who really scares the living crap out of China is Japan. China has poked the Land of the Rising Sun enough to make them start to reevaluate their War No More Constitution. Japan's technology is first rate and they have been a first rate naval power in the past and could easily be so in the future. Plus, Japan has a friend that can project more power around the globe, than the rest of the world combined, if we get down to brass tacks. And don't think the Chinese don't know it.
I often wonder just how China perceives India. I think Trump recognizes India may be the counterweight to China in many respects. As American money and factories start to move out of China, they will lokk to invest and produce good elsewhere. For all of Trump's talk of bring jobs back to America, I think he does know that some things are better for our economy if they are made in countries with cheaper labor, resulting in lower prices to American consumers. I think he will continue to push investment in India (if possible), along with SE Asian countries such as Vietnam.
As for the CNN piece and the OMB swamp critters down at Foggy Bottom...The State Department has long left snot tracks on the ceiling as the most swampiest old boy network on the Potomac. I'm usually a big proponent of civil service, but if there is one department in government that could benefit from the spoils system, it is the boys at State. Oftentimes, they think they are above the direction of the Executive Branch in implementing American foreign policy. Nothing should be further from the truth.
The CNN piece is typical "find somebody to bellyache about Trump and then let's build a narrative around it". Trump has made some mistakes in foreign policy, he has also had some triumphs. The question for America is not necessarily about Trump, it is about what should be America's long term foreign policy goals. Since we have four year election cycles, where we change out leadership, it is often difficult to enage in any but the broadest and macro goals in respect to the long term.
Perhaps CNN might engage in that discussion.
But they won't.
-
I’d like to see Bolton write a book about himself and how far his “competence” took him. Spoiler alert- tool of the left before disposed of.
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 14:27 last edited by@Loki said in A Shaky Future?:
I’d like to see Bolton write a book about himself and how far his “competence” took him. Spoiler alert- tool of the left before disposed of.
Look I disagree with 90% of his world view. But I think at age 71, a Yale lawyer, with the jobs of assistant attorney general, undersecretary of state, UN ambassador and national security advisor, I don’t think he is truly worried about his legacy. I would think his competence actually took him quite far. And from what I can tell from his book, he could not care one whit what the left does with his book because he makes very clear his disdain for the liberal world outlook.
His ire with trump is more about someone who could have advanced a conservative agenda because he had the mandate, vis a vis Russia or China or North Korea, but was too much obsessed with his own image and actually envied the ruthlessness of Putin, Kim Jong un or Xi Jinping, without the true leadership qualities u need to be a tyrant. He wasn’t up to the task because at the end of the day, he hasn’t grown out of being a reality show faker. With nothing but true disdain for his adoring base. -
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 14:35 last edited by
I read a report some time ago about how human intelligence is devolving. According to the report, people who lived 500 years ago were smarter than today, people who lived 1000 years ago were smarter than those who lived 500 years ago, and so on. I could see their argument, but didn't necessarily agree with it. I am now convinced there is something to it, because I look at what passes for logic and reason today and am shocked at how much dumber people in general have become just over the years I have been alive.
There is absolutely nothing - NOTHING - in that article worth the ink it took to print it. Not a single point in it passes as rational thought, the very fact that it's even being taken seriously by anyone at all is enough to make you scared for what's to come another generation out.
Just as scary is that it is now obvious that far too many people would rather focus on their dislike of Trump than to actually use their brain and examine what will happen to this country if he loses. Some are so delusional they actually think the democrat party that exists today is the same one that existed just 15 or so years ago.
Focus on what matters, not the kind of shit this article is shoveling.
I weep for my country.
-
@Loki said in A Shaky Future?:
I’d like to see Bolton write a book about himself and how far his “competence” took him. Spoiler alert- tool of the left before disposed of.
Look I disagree with 90% of his world view. But I think at age 71, a Yale lawyer, with the jobs of assistant attorney general, undersecretary of state, UN ambassador and national security advisor, I don’t think he is truly worried about his legacy. I would think his competence actually took him quite far. And from what I can tell from his book, he could not care one whit what the left does with his book because he makes very clear his disdain for the liberal world outlook.
His ire with trump is more about someone who could have advanced a conservative agenda because he had the mandate, vis a vis Russia or China or North Korea, but was too much obsessed with his own image and actually envied the ruthlessness of Putin, Kim Jong un or Xi Jinping, without the true leadership qualities u need to be a tyrant. He wasn’t up to the task because at the end of the day, he hasn’t grown out of being a reality show faker. With nothing but true disdain for his adoring base.wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 14:37 last edited by@bachophile said in A Shaky Future?:
@Loki said in A Shaky Future?:
I’d like to see Bolton write a book about himself and how far his “competence” took him. Spoiler alert- tool of the left before disposed of.
Look I disagree with 90% of his world view. But I think at age 71, a Yale lawyer, with the jobs of assistant attorney general, undersecretary of state, UN ambassador and national security advisor, I don’t think he is truly worried about his legacy. I would think his competence actually took him quite far. And from what I can tell from his book, he could not care one whit what the left does with his book because he makes very clear his disdain for the liberal world outlook.
His ire with trump is more about someone who could have advanced a conservative agenda because he had the mandate, vis a vis Russia or China or North Korea, but was too much obsessed with his own image and actually envied the ruthlessness of Putin, Kim Jong un or Xi Jinping, without the true leadership qualities u need to be a tyrant. He wasn’t up to the task because at the end of the day, he hasn’t grown out of being a reality show faker. With nothing but true disdain for his adoring base.I can see how you might see it that way, but the truth is he is a little man with a Napoleon complex and pissed off because he found out he wasn't running the country.
-
I read a report some time ago about how human intelligence is devolving. According to the report, people who lived 500 years ago were smarter than today, people who lived 1000 years ago were smarter than those who lived 500 years ago, and so on. I could see their argument, but didn't necessarily agree with it. I am now convinced there is something to it, because I look at what passes for logic and reason today and am shocked at how much dumber people in general have become just over the years I have been alive.
There is absolutely nothing - NOTHING - in that article worth the ink it took to print it. Not a single point in it passes as rational thought, the very fact that it's even being taken seriously by anyone at all is enough to make you scared for what's to come another generation out.
Just as scary is that it is now obvious that far too many people would rather focus on their dislike of Trump than to actually use their brain and examine what will happen to this country if he loses. Some are so delusional they actually think the democrat party that exists today is the same one that existed just 15 or so years ago.
Focus on what matters, not the kind of shit this article is shoveling.
I weep for my country.
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 14:37 last edited by@Larry is the Republican Party today what it was 15 yeas ago?
to my mind they have both gone to shit.
-
@Larry is the Republican Party today what it was 15 yeas ago?
to my mind they have both gone to shit.
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 14:53 last edited by@bachophile said in A Shaky Future?:
@Larry is the Republican Party today what it was 15 yeas ago?
to my mind they have both gone to shit.
I ain't Larry, but I'll take a stab at that one...
The Republican Party is more populist than it was 15 years ago. It now attracts more voters that previously were firmly under the Democrat umbrella. It is not as conservative (sadly) in many ways. Trump is much more a centrist, somewhat akin to Bill Clinton in the 90's, and if he had received the same press treatment as Clinton (sans Lewinsky) his approval ratings would be in the high 50's.
The Democrat Party is rapidly evolving into a Hard Left Looney Tunes Socialist party. Biden has one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel, and I'm afraid his VP choice will be further Left than he is. With the Great Society, we have assured the propagation of the stupid, a permanent subculture of Gibmedats. In a one man/one vote republic, as our politicians fall further into the pandering pit, the voracious appetite of the Gibmedats for ever more social programs, and the simple fact they will outbreed the middle and upper classes, will eventually lead to the fall of capitalism and the rise of socialism in our Grand Experiment.
May God have Mercy on the United States of America...
-
@Loki said in A Shaky Future?:
I’d like to see Bolton write a book about himself and how far his “competence” took him. Spoiler alert- tool of the left before disposed of.
Look I disagree with 90% of his world view. But I think at age 71, a Yale lawyer, with the jobs of assistant attorney general, undersecretary of state, UN ambassador and national security advisor, I don’t think he is truly worried about his legacy. I would think his competence actually took him quite far. And from what I can tell from his book, he could not care one whit what the left does with his book because he makes very clear his disdain for the liberal world outlook.
His ire with trump is more about someone who could have advanced a conservative agenda because he had the mandate, vis a vis Russia or China or North Korea, but was too much obsessed with his own image and actually envied the ruthlessness of Putin, Kim Jong un or Xi Jinping, without the true leadership qualities u need to be a tyrant. He wasn’t up to the task because at the end of the day, he hasn’t grown out of being a reality show faker. With nothing but true disdain for his adoring base.wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 15:07 last edited by@bachophile said in A Shaky Future?:
@Loki said in A Shaky Future?:
I’d like to see Bolton write a book about himself and how far his “competence” took him. Spoiler alert- tool of the left before disposed of.
Look I disagree with 90% of his world view. But I think at age 71, a Yale lawyer, with the jobs of assistant attorney general, undersecretary of state, UN ambassador and national security advisor, I don’t think he is truly worried about his legacy. I would think his competence actually took him quite far. And from what I can tell from his book, he could not care one whit what the left does with his book because he makes very clear his disdain for the liberal world outlook.
His ire with trump is more about someone who could have advanced a conservative agenda because he had the mandate, vis a vis Russia or China or North Korea, but was too much obsessed with his own image and actually envied the ruthlessness of Putin, Kim Jong un or Xi Jinping, without the true leadership qualities u need to be a tyrant. He wasn’t up to the task because at the end of the day, he hasn’t grown out of being a reality show faker. With nothing but true disdain for his adoring base.I understand your take on things but a man sums up his life based on Donald Trump, this book is his great insight? I feel sorry for the man.
-
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 15:10 last edited by
@Jolly said in A Shaky Future?:
more full of shit than a Christmas turkey.
This is the most interesting part of this discussion so far. I never knew that Christmas turkeys are full of shit. Disgusting. Why do you eat them?
-
@bachophile said in A Shaky Future?:
@Loki said in A Shaky Future?:
I’d like to see Bolton write a book about himself and how far his “competence” took him. Spoiler alert- tool of the left before disposed of.
Look I disagree with 90% of his world view. But I think at age 71, a Yale lawyer, with the jobs of assistant attorney general, undersecretary of state, UN ambassador and national security advisor, I don’t think he is truly worried about his legacy. I would think his competence actually took him quite far. And from what I can tell from his book, he could not care one whit what the left does with his book because he makes very clear his disdain for the liberal world outlook.
His ire with trump is more about someone who could have advanced a conservative agenda because he had the mandate, vis a vis Russia or China or North Korea, but was too much obsessed with his own image and actually envied the ruthlessness of Putin, Kim Jong un or Xi Jinping, without the true leadership qualities u need to be a tyrant. He wasn’t up to the task because at the end of the day, he hasn’t grown out of being a reality show faker. With nothing but true disdain for his adoring base.I understand your take on things but a man sums up his life based on Donald Trump, this book is his great insight? I feel sorry for the man.
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 15:10 last edited by bachophile 7 May 2020, 15:10@Loki it’s not a memoir or autobiography.
It’s a diary. That’s all. Of chaos
-
@Jolly said in A Shaky Future?:
more full of shit than a Christmas turkey.
This is the most interesting part of this discussion so far. I never knew that Christmas turkeys are full of shit. Disgusting. Why do you eat them?
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 15:12 last edited by@Klaus said in A Shaky Future?:
@Jolly said in A Shaky Future?:
more full of shit than a Christmas turkey.
This is the most interesting part of this discussion so far. I never knew that Christmas turkeys are full of shit. Disgusting. Why do you eat them?
Shit is a wonderful Southern idiom. We can use that one word, and darn near write a Shakespeare sonnet...
“Cry havoc and let slip the DOGE of war!”
Those who cheered as J-6 American prisoners were locked in solitary for 18 months without trial, now suddenly fight tooth and nail for foreign terrorists’ "due process". — Buck Sexton
-
wrote on 5 Jul 2020, 15:17 last edited by
Shall I compare thee to a summer’s shit?
