The Killing Tree

Mik

@Doctor-Phibes said in The Killing Tree:

I could have used all sorts of things. There are plenty of people who want to stop gay marriage, or the Federal Reserve, or whatever the fuck they don't like. The point is, these things aren't what define tyranny. Having your family murdered for dissent is much closer.

POTD

Horace

@Mik said in The Killing Tree:

@Doctor-Phibes said in The Killing Tree:

I could have used all sorts of things. There are plenty of people who want to stop gay marriage, or the Federal Reserve, or whatever the fuck they don't like. The point is, these things aren't what define tyranny. Having your family murdered for dissent is much closer.

POTD

Meaningless post which shuts down conversation about all things which do not reach the threshold of genocide.

Doctor Phibes

@Horace said in The Killing Tree:

Meaningless post which shuts down conversation about all things which do not reach the threshold of genocide.

No. When the initial discussion is about genocide, changing the subject to being about America's latest fad is what is shutting down the conversation.

If I barged into one of your interminable posts about the horrors of American pop culture by changing the subject to the holocaust, then that would be shutting down the conversation as you claim.

Which is what I'm going to do from now on, incidentally.

Jolly

@Doctor-Phibes said in The Killing Tree:

@Jolly said in The Killing Tree:

Those mothers probably never worried about their children being transgendered.

I bet people weren't saying that masks or vaccines were a sign of tyranny, either.

You're beating a dead horse. As we have learned, those things were a sign of tyranny.

OTOH, I think you missed my point entirely. The current transgenderism silliness is a first world problem, ramped up by an overly comfortable, fat, dumb and happy populace, desperately seeking something to be oppressed about.

Horace

@Doctor-Phibes said in The Killing Tree:

@Horace said in The Killing Tree:

Meaningless post which shuts down conversation about all things which do not reach the threshold of genocide.

No. When the initial discussion is about genocide, changing the subject to being about America's latest fad is what is shutting down the conversation.

If I barged into one of your interminable posts about the horrors of American pop culture by changing the subject to the holocaust, then that would be shutting down the conversation as you claim.

Which is what I'm going to do from now on, incidentally.

Well you do, in fact, have more of a history here than probably any other poster, with contributions which are really only transparent attempts at denying the possibility that others are making reasonable points. This denial comes in the form of messenger-shooting and both-sides-are-equalizing. Anybody can play this game of zooming out, describing, and dismissing the posts of others. It's lame and intellectually vacuous though.

Renauda

@Horace

I am deeply ashamed to admit that I don't know much about Cambodia. I do work with a Cambodian guy whose family was mostly killed by the KR. That probably gives me relative authority in this discussion. Disagree with anything I say at your own peril of being defined as wrong.

Yesterday you posted the following in the Israel thread:

Nobody actually holds to a principle of deferring to natives regarding cultural issues. They only pretend to defer when they know a priori they will agree with a given native.

I don’t believe you are the least bit ashamed.

However to your point that you don’t know much about Cambodia, I am not surprised. That would probably require you to crack open a history text. Too much for your pop culture obsessed technocrat brain to handle

Doctor Phibes

@Horace said in The Killing Tree:

@Doctor-Phibes said in The Killing Tree:

@Horace said in The Killing Tree:

Meaningless post which shuts down conversation about all things which do not reach the threshold of genocide.

No. When the initial discussion is about genocide, changing the subject to being about America's latest fad is what is shutting down the conversation.

If I barged into one of your interminable posts about the horrors of American pop culture by changing the subject to the holocaust, then that would be shutting down the conversation as you claim.

Which is what I'm going to do from now on, incidentally.

Well you do, in fact, have more of a history here than probably any other poster, with contributions which are really only transparent attempts at denying the possibility that others are making reasonable points. This denial comes in the form of messenger-shooting and both-sides-are-equalizing. Anybody can play this game of zooming out, describing, and dismissing the posts of others. It's lame and intellectually vacuous though.

Yeah, I must admit I frequently don't put much thought into my posts. I hope you don't either, because you've basically made the same one about a million times already.

Horace

@Doctor-Phibes said in The Killing Tree:

@Horace said in The Killing Tree:

@Doctor-Phibes said in The Killing Tree:

@Horace said in The Killing Tree:

Meaningless post which shuts down conversation about all things which do not reach the threshold of genocide.

No. When the initial discussion is about genocide, changing the subject to being about America's latest fad is what is shutting down the conversation.

If I barged into one of your interminable posts about the horrors of American pop culture by changing the subject to the holocaust, then that would be shutting down the conversation as you claim.

Which is what I'm going to do from now on, incidentally.

Well you do, in fact, have more of a history here than probably any other poster, with contributions which are really only transparent attempts at denying the possibility that others are making reasonable points. This denial comes in the form of messenger-shooting and both-sides-are-equalizing. Anybody can play this game of zooming out, describing, and dismissing the posts of others. It's lame and intellectually vacuous though.

Yeah, I must admit I frequently don't put much thought into my posts. I hope you don't either, because you've basically made the same one about a million times already.

Like you pay any attention to them.

Horace

@Renauda said in The Killing Tree:

@Horace

I am deeply ashamed to admit that I don't know much about Cambodia. I do work with a Cambodian guy whose family was mostly killed by the KR. That probably gives me relative authority in this discussion. Disagree with anything I say at your own peril of being defined as wrong.

Yesterday you posted the following in the Israel thread:

Nobody actually holds to a principle of deferring to natives regarding cultural issues. They only pretend to defer when they know a priori they will agree with a given native.

I don’t believe you are the least bit ashamed.

However to your point that you don’t know much about Cambodia, I am not surprised. That would probably require you to crack open a history text. Too much for your pop culture obsessed technocrat brain to handle

It was a good point that I posted, about people pretending to defer to natives on cultural issues. This happens in one of two scenarios:

The person claiming to defer, has no dog in the hunt regarding that issue.
The person claiming to defer, knows a priori that the native will agree with them on an issue they do in fact care about.

This rhetorical trick often comes into play here in America in a slightly different way. White liberals will claim to defer to black Americans about all things race, and by extension nearly all things political. But they only defer when they know a particular black person will agree with them.

Renauda

@Horace

It was a good point that I posted, about people pretending to defer to natives on cultural issues.

You’re probably right despite the fact it was irrelevant to the demonstrations in Israel, which was, in fact the topic of thread. Unless of course you posted under the illusion that no one was interested in what bach, a resident of Israel, had say about the question affecting his country. If that is the case and I suspect it could very well be so, your post is really little other than passive aggressive snipe at the fact that some here honestly do, want to hear what an Israeli citizen and regular poster to this forum, has to say about the crisis in their country.

Horace

@Renauda said in The Killing Tree:

@Horace

It was a good point that I posted, about people pretending to defer to natives on cultural issues.

You’re probably right despite the fact it was irrelevant to the demonstrations in Israel, which was, in fact the topic of thread. Unless of course you posted under the illusion that no one was interested in what bach, a resident of Israel, had say about the question affecting his country. If that is the case and I suspect it could very well be so, your post is really little other than passive aggressive snipe at the fact that some here honestly do, want to hear what an Israeli citizen and regular poster to this forum, has to say about the crisis in their country.

I'm sure it's interesting to hear perspectives from people who live there.

As for deferring to natives regarding conclusive opinions, obviously nobody on this board has such a principle. And obviously no such principle even exists coherently, when a culture is itself divided. But it's a principle that pops up often, and always disingenuously, by people who want to crib some credibility for their own opinion, by attaching it to someone who would know, and others should shut up.

Renauda

@Horace

But it's a principle that pops up often, and always disingenuously, by people who want to crib some credibility for their own opinion, by attaching it to someone who would know, and others should shut up.

I would have never thought there were so many dishonest people wanting to hear what others with direct experience, have to say about a given topic or issue.

Perhaps you can give us some insight into the dialectics of how pop culture and progressive liberalism affect one trick ponies?

Mik

Not sure about natives, which Bach isn’t, but I normally respect the views of people who I am sure know more than I about a given subject. I may or may not completely agree, but I certainly give their opinions more weight.

Horace

@Renauda said in The Killing Tree:

@Horace

But it's a principle that pops up often, and always disingenuously, by people who want to crib some credibility for their own opinion, by attaching it to someone who would know, and others should shut up.

It's all well and good to solicit perspectives from natives, I never claimed otherwise. The amount of respect you have for the opinions of natives regarding their country's politics, is clear.

Horace

@Mik said in The Killing Tree:

Not sure about natives, which Bach isn’t, but I normally respect the views of people who I am sure know more than I about a given subject. I may or may not completely agree, but I certainly give their opinions more weight.

Yes, of course. But the rhetorical trick I mentioned, and which Renauda has made a big deal of, is real, and I thought it was worth mentioning. Especially as it relates to American political rhetoric, in which I am a native expert.

Renauda

@Horace

So does that explain why when Americans speak of other countries’ delivery of health care and insurance they are in fact only speaking about the delivery of US health care and insurance as they have no idea or any interest about how those services are administered outside the US?

Horace

@Renauda said in The Killing Tree:

@Horace

So does that explain why when Americans speak of other countries’ delivery of health care and insurance they are in fact only speaking about the delivery of US health care and insurance as they have no idea or any interest about how those services are administered outside the US?

I consider that to be a very interesting question, and I have no fealty whatsoever to the American system.

As for any other Americans you may have in mind, I suggest asking them.