This is gonna be one of those moments that goes viral....
-
From Tim Urban, a little complicated but it captures the evolution of ideas. He is intentionally avoiding the word woke here in favor of ‘Social Justice Fundamentalism’
-
wrote on 16 Mar 2023, 17:12 last edited by
It's like pornography. You know it when you see it.
-
wrote on 16 Mar 2023, 17:20 last edited by
@jon-nyc said in This is gonna be one of those moments that goes viral....:
I’m sure it’s the best definition for you.
Yes that stands to reason. The best in general will also be the best for me.
-
wrote on 18 Mar 2023, 12:31 last edited by
-
wrote on 18 Mar 2023, 12:37 last edited by
You know, there really is only one way to ensure equity. Enforced population control. So long as there are more white people than individual minorities, there can be no true equity. And even those measures taken by whites to aid in DEI are by their nature inequitable. These measures are being taken and provided by whites. And they know it. How “magnanimous” of them.
-
wrote on 18 Mar 2023, 12:41 last edited by
On the short term, I suggest limiting the number of white people that can vote.
On the long term, there simply are too many of them. Should we pass 1 baby measures similar to China? Specifically for whites, of course. And just till the numbers even up. You know, a great way to make this happen? Make their boys think they’re girls and the girls think they’re boys!
-
On the short term, I suggest limiting the number of white people that can vote.
On the long term, there simply are too many of them. Should we pass 1 baby measures similar to China? Specifically for whites, of course. And just till the numbers even up. You know, a great way to make this happen? Make their boys think they’re girls and the girls think they’re boys!
wrote on 18 Mar 2023, 12:44 last edited by@LuFins-Dad said in This is gonna be one of those moments that goes viral....:
On the short term, I suggest limiting the number of white people that can vote.
On the long term, there simply are too many of them. Should we pass 1 baby measures similar to China? Specifically for whites, of course. And just till the numbers even up. You know, a great way to make this happen? Make their boys think they’re girls and the girls think they’re boys!
Interesting argument. I don't recall seeing a huge transgenderism movement in the black, asian or hispanic communities.
-
wrote on 18 Mar 2023, 12:45 last edited by
Even limiting numbers doesn’t help if the minority whites (and Asians) continue to outperform. To truly achieve equity you’d have to proactively limit the opportunities the disfavored ethnicities could enjoy. Like Malaysia does to it’s Chinese minority.
-
Even limiting numbers doesn’t help if the minority whites (and Asians) continue to outperform. To truly achieve equity you’d have to proactively limit the opportunities the disfavored ethnicities could enjoy. Like Malaysia does to it’s Chinese minority.
wrote on 18 Mar 2023, 13:07 last edited by@jon-nyc said in This is gonna be one of those moments that goes viral....:
Even limiting numbers doesn’t help if the minority whites (and Asians) continue to outperform. To truly achieve equity you’d have to proactively limit the opportunities the disfavored ethnicities could enjoy. Like Malaysia does to it’s Chinese minority.
No, if you admit that some cultures would continue to outperform the median even if the system is balanced in numbers, then you are admitting there is something more than inherent and imbedded racism at play. The movement cannot have inconsistency… Oh wait, nevermind…
-
On the short term, I suggest limiting the number of white people that can vote.
On the long term, there simply are too many of them. Should we pass 1 baby measures similar to China? Specifically for whites, of course. And just till the numbers even up. You know, a great way to make this happen? Make their boys think they’re girls and the girls think they’re boys!
wrote on 18 Mar 2023, 14:38 last edited by@LuFins-Dad said in This is gonna be one of those moments that goes viral....:
On the long term, there simply are too many of them.
White people are a minority.
They are not properly geographically distributed.
There are too many in the USA, spread them around and let's see what happens.
-
@LuFins-Dad said in This is gonna be one of those moments that goes viral....:
On the long term, there simply are too many of them.
White people are a minority.
They are not properly geographically distributed.
There are too many in the USA, spread them around and let's see what happens.
wrote on 18 Mar 2023, 14:55 last edited by@Copper said in This is gonna be one of those moments that goes viral....:
White people are a minority.
They are not properly geographically distributed.
There are too many in the USA, spread them around and let's see what happens.
Indeed. Historically, white people have done quite a bit to spread themselves around, colonizing the world and whatnot.
-
On the short term, I suggest limiting the number of white people that can vote.
On the long term, there simply are too many of them. Should we pass 1 baby measures similar to China? Specifically for whites, of course. And just till the numbers even up. You know, a great way to make this happen? Make their boys think they’re girls and the girls think they’re boys!
wrote on 18 Mar 2023, 15:06 last edited by@LuFins-Dad said in This is gonna be one of those moments that goes viral....:
On the long term, there simply are too many of them. Should we pass 1 baby measures similar to China?
The Communists in China was so forward looking, they recognized how their own population are so much bigger than others that they volunteered into the one-child policy decades ago! India, in contrast, has no such self-awareness.
You know, a great way to make this happen? Make their boys think they’re girls and the girls think they’re boys!
Dude, no need to reinvent the wheel; the CCP has shown you that forced abortions and forced sterilizations were very effective. You just need to accept abortions and let the government fund abortions.
Or raise the cost of raising children, bigly. Continuing to learn from mainland China, the cost of raising children got so high (compared to income) that most folks in mainland China refuse to procreate.
-
@LuFins-Dad said in This is gonna be one of those moments that goes viral....:
On the short term, I suggest limiting the number of white people that can vote.
On the long term, there simply are too many of them. Should we pass 1 baby measures similar to China? Specifically for whites, of course. And just till the numbers even up. You know, a great way to make this happen? Make their boys think they’re girls and the girls think they’re boys!
Interesting argument. I don't recall seeing a huge transgenderism movement in the black, asian or hispanic communities.
wrote on 19 Mar 2023, 20:15 last edited by@Jolly said in This is gonna be one of those moments that goes viral....:
@LuFins-Dad said in This is gonna be one of those moments that goes viral....:
On the short term, I suggest limiting the number of white people that can vote.
On the long term, there simply are too many of them. Should we pass 1 baby measures similar to China? Specifically for whites, of course. And just till the numbers even up. You know, a great way to make this happen? Make their boys think they’re girls and the girls think they’re boys!
Interesting argument. I don't recall seeing a huge transgenderism movement in the black, asian or hispanic communities.
Most of the black hookers in Springfield were crossdressers.
-
wrote on 20 Mar 2023, 16:06 last edited by
@Jolly said in This is gonna be one of those moments that goes viral....:
https://www.newsweek.com/define-woke-bethany-mandel-conservative-book-1788538
Brain farts happen. The only decent reason this should be an important piece of the cultural conversation, is if the question admitted to no reasonable answer, and that's why it choked the conservative pundit. But of course the question has plenty of reasonable answers, and the viral nature of it all can just be chalked up to tribal schadenfreude.
I suppose I'll get her book now. The publicity is likely the best thing for her book and her career. No such thing as positive publicity that would have been this effective at getting the word out about her book.
-
wrote on 20 Mar 2023, 16:17 last edited by jon-nyc
I've long thought that it is unhelpful in real conversation to use phrases like 'woke' or 'CRT', they're not specific enough and they mean different thing to different people. That makes it easy for defenders of the ideas to gaslight people through Motte and Bailey fallacies (which constantly happens with both terms).
Better to talk about component ideas. Then there's nowhere to hide.
-
I've long thought that it is unhelpful in real conversation to use phrases like 'woke' or 'CRT', they're not specific enough and they mean different thing to different people. That makes it easy for defenders of the ideas to gaslight people through Motte and Bailey fallacies (which constantly happens with both terms).
Better to talk about component ideas. Then there's nowhere to hide.
wrote on 20 Mar 2023, 16:24 last edited by jon-nycBetter to talk about component ideas. Then there's nowhere to hide.
That's what's so fantastic about this guy's definition:
Wokeness is a political and social movement characterized by the following:
-A strong and in practice unrebuttable presumption that certain salient group disparities are due entirely to oppression.
-A willingness to jettison longstanding legal, political, and social norms in order to eliminate those disparities.
-A belief that oppression operates through both impersonal power structures and unconscious attitudes.
-A hyper-sensitivity to the feelings, both real and imagined, of members of marginalized groups.
-An expansive, almost mystical conception of the self, which is inherited from the liberal tradition that wokeness seeks to overthrow.
-Distrust—and in many cases demonization—of straight, white, cisgendered males.Those are things you can point to as occurring through real examples, and argue about on principled and philosophical grounds. And not get bad faith responses like "they don't want us to teach black history..."
-
Better to talk about component ideas. Then there's nowhere to hide.
That's what's so fantastic about this guy's definition:
Wokeness is a political and social movement characterized by the following:
-A strong and in practice unrebuttable presumption that certain salient group disparities are due entirely to oppression.
-A willingness to jettison longstanding legal, political, and social norms in order to eliminate those disparities.
-A belief that oppression operates through both impersonal power structures and unconscious attitudes.
-A hyper-sensitivity to the feelings, both real and imagined, of members of marginalized groups.
-An expansive, almost mystical conception of the self, which is inherited from the liberal tradition that wokeness seeks to overthrow.
-Distrust—and in many cases demonization—of straight, white, cisgendered males.Those are things you can point to as occurring through real examples, and argue about on principled and philosophical grounds. And not get bad faith responses like "they don't want us to teach black history..."
wrote on 20 Mar 2023, 16:32 last edited by@jon-nyc said in This is gonna be one of those moments that goes viral....:
Better to talk about component ideas. Then there's nowhere to hide.
That's what's so fantastic about this guy's definition:
Wokeness is a political and social movement characterized by the following:
-A strong and in practice unrebuttable presumption that certain salient group disparities are due entirely to oppression.
-A willingness to jettison longstanding legal, political, and social norms in order to eliminate those disparities.
-A belief that oppression operates through both impersonal power structures and unconscious attitudes.
-A hyper-sensitivity to the feelings, both real and imagined, of members of marginalized groups.
-An expansive, almost mystical conception of the self, which is inherited from the liberal tradition that wokeness seeks to overthrow.
-Distrust—and in many cases demonization—of straight, white, cisgendered males.Those are things you can point to as occurring through real examples, and argue about on principled and philosophical grounds. And not get bad faith responses like "they don't want us to teach black history..."
That's a well thought out definition. Who's is that? Some twitter rando?
-
I've long thought that it is unhelpful in real conversation to use phrases like 'woke' or 'CRT', they're not specific enough and they mean different thing to different people. That makes it easy for defenders of the ideas to gaslight people through Motte and Bailey fallacies (which constantly happens with both terms).
Better to talk about component ideas. Then there's nowhere to hide.
wrote on 20 Mar 2023, 16:37 last edited by@jon-nyc said in This is gonna be one of those moments that goes viral....:
I've long thought that it is unhelpful in real conversation to use phrases like 'woke' or 'CRT', they're not specific enough and they mean different thing to different people. That makes it easy for defenders of the ideas to gaslight people through Motte and Bailey fallacies (which constantly happens with both terms).
Better to talk about component ideas. Then there's nowhere to hide.
Arguments about definitions is not a bad place to start a conversation. In fact it's an inevitable place. I don't have an issue with the words 'woke' or 'CRT', unless the conversation stops there at a definitional impasse. Just because one side is invested in stopping the conversation due to an alleged impasse, doesn't make it so. That's what we see happening with the 'CRT' conversation, and the left's insistence that it's undefinable gobbledygook from right wing wackos. Any attempt to define the term, which are made, are met with whackamole politics where the leftists claim that any given example of something taught, was taken out of context and/or not representative of any large scale educational movement. The "CRT" wrapper remains a useful term, even if unfairly maligned by the left. The rules of that language game are not fair nor winnable by the right, so they just have to plunge ahead using imperfect language.
-
wrote on 20 Mar 2023, 18:42 last edited by
"Woke" and "CRT" are good shorthand when talking to friendly audiences or fundraising. But to get beyond "unfair and not winnable" you really have to speak of component ideas.